NFL 100 All-Time Team

[JohnTurney]

I would guess the big reason for this, John, is that he took so long to get into the HOF. What are his stats besides sacks, compared to, say, Doleman's?

individual stats, Doleman has more FF 45 to 34. Youngblood had more passes deflected. Youngblood averaged 56 tackles a season, Doleman 52. Younbglood averaged
11 sacks, Doleman 10. Doleman picked off more passes.

I really don't think there is much difference in stats...I'd call is a draw---

The real difference is consensus All-Pros DOleman was consensus All-Pro twice and was a 3-time All-Pro total. So for First- and Second-team Doleman was
a 5-timer in that. He had 8 Pro Bowls..one more than Youngblood, but he trailed him in All-Pros, consensus All-Pros and First and Second-team All-Pros.

I certainly like Doleman (helped in him, felt Dent was behind him in most aspects, even though Dent got in ahead, a slight oversight IMO)

But as far as stats, when you go team stats--Doleman played on some great defenses, but the Rams D was more "ahead of the curve" than the Vikings and later 49ers.

[JameisLoseston]

Doleman's All-Pros are obviously affected by his misfortune in playing at the same time as Reggie White and Bruce Smith. I'm not using this to argue that Doleman is better, I agree with the draw declaration, it just surprises me how often postseason honors are cited out of context without taking a deeper look at exactly why they vary. Jack Kemp says hi. Although they basically even out, though, Youngblood does get points for being one tough SOB. Easy player to admire for sure. Doleman, playing at the same time as Bruce and Reggie, just kinda got forgotten about.

Regarding Doleman's tackles, though, I'm seeing 975 in 15 seasons, an exactly 65 average. PFR wouldn't seriously put up fake stats, would they?!

[JohnTurney]

Regarding Doleman's tackles, though, I'm seeing 975 in 15 seasons, an exactly 65 average. PFR wouldn't seriously put up fake stats, would they?!

I don't call them "fake". I just say the sources are different. PFR uses a mix of coaches stats up through 1993 and they are always higher than the gamebook stats. When you go through the gamebooks you get a different total and I try to use gamebooks tackles as much as possible since that is what has been the standard(more or less) since 1994.

You can see the difference here.
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... urces.html

If you go by play-by-plays for both players Doleman had 786 tackles, not 975.

As far as playing when WHite and Smith played, that's true...however, going back to the 1970s and if you read the literature of the day, Youngblood was the White/Doleman. In a competition for the All-pro team, with players like Eller, Humphrey, Bethea, Greenwood, and later Selmon----Youngblood was one of the top 2 DEs and beat out a lot of good DEs in doing it.

Now if someone wants to rank Doleman ahead of Youngblood, that's fine, that's their view...but to me it's a hard case to make.

Strahan and Youngblood, to me, are very similar, super-hard to separate the value or rank of their careers...and certainly reasonable people can disagree there as well.

[JameisLoseston]

Regarding Doleman's tackles, though, I'm seeing 975 in 15 seasons, an exactly 65 average. PFR wouldn't seriously put up fake stats, would they?!

I don't call them "fake". I just say the sources are different. PFR uses a mix of coaches stats up through 1993 and they are always higher than the gamebook stats. When you go through the gamebooks you get a different total and I try to use gamebooks tackles as much as possible since that is what has been the standard(more or less) since 1994.

You can see the difference here.
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... urces.html

If you go by play-by-plays for both players Doleman had 786 tackles, not 975.

As far as playing when WHite and Smith played, that's true...however, going back to the 1970s and if you read the literature of the day, Youngblood was the White/Doleman. In a competition for the All-pro team, with players like Eller, Humphrey, Bethea, Greenwood, and later Selmon----Youngblood was one of the top 2 DEs and beat out a lot of good DEs in doing it.

Now if someone wants to rank Doleman ahead of Youngblood, that's fine, that's their view...but to me it's a hard case to make.

Strahan and Youngblood, to me, are very similar, super-hard to separate the value or rank of their careers...and certainly reasonable people can disagree there as well.

Highly informative as always. I kind of guessed that would be the discrepancy, as it always seems to be, but Doleman's listed tackles aren't outlandish, so I just never really doubted them. PFR also doesn't have the really insane coaches numbers like the Gradishar 2,000+ tackles, for some reason, so I assumed maybe they had a policy against them. Also didn't know the coaches were still doing this even after tackle recording became standardized; those Ray Lewis 200+ tackle seasons look nice, but when measured against the accepted totals they really expose what a farce the claims of such seasons for pre-90s guys are. Do you think anyone has ever legitimately gotten 200 tackles? Has a pass-rusher gotten 100?

So I guess this means that Reggie White 18 sack/133 tackle season is fudged too. Dang, that was one of my go-tos for supporting White in defensive GOAT discussions. What did he really have in 1988?

[JohnTurney]

[quote="JameisLoseston"]

1988 he had a career-high of 88 tackles (71-17) Career average was 61

[JohnH19]

Carl Eller's black ink should get him into the conversation for a spot at DE; six time AP first team All-Pro in 1968-71, 73 and 75, and one more first team selection from The Sporting News in 1972, plus three second team selections from various sources in 67, 72 and 74.

The only thing missing on Eller's resume is a Super Bowl championship which is why most of the qualified Vikings from the Bud Grant era won't have received consideration for the All-Time Team and had to wait forever just to get into the HoF.

[JuggernautJ]

Today the NFL announced the first player in "The 100."
It is, fittingly, Jim Brown.

[JWL]

Carl Eller and Jack Youngblood should certainly be finalists. They were strongly considered for my team for what that is worth.

[JohnTurney]

Carl Eller's black ink should get him into the conversation for a spot at DE; six time AP first team All-Pro in 1968-71, 73 and 75, and one more first team selection from The Sporting News in 1972, plus three second team selections from various sources in 67, 72 and 74.

The only thing missing on Eller's resume is a Super Bowl championship which is why most of the qualified Vikings from the Bud Grant era won't have received consideration for the All-Time Team and had to wait forever just to get into the HoF.

He had a very good case. However, Pro Football Reference recently "reorganized" their honors. The 1975 AP First-team All-Pro is actually an All-NFC.

He was a consensus All-Pro 4 times, First-team All-Pro five times, and First- and Second-team All-Pro 7 times and 6 Pro Bowls.


My only issue from Eller is the "eye test" he really came on in the late-1960s and made his mark.

In 1965 or so there was talk of moving him to defensive tackle because he just couldn't get off the ball quickly enough for an end. And maybe that motivated him to get better.

So, at his "peak" he was very high—in the same grouping as Strahan, Ford, Youngblood, etc., Atkins even, but his slow start and slow finish docks him just a bit.

Now that is not a real "rip" of him, that happens to lots of guys, but when you have a bunch of guys you have to look a lot of things to separate them, and consistency is one of them. But my personal rating of him is behind Willie Davis and ahead of Len Ford. I rank him 7th best 4-3 end. He was a dominant player

[ChrisBabcock]

Today the NFL announced the first player in "The 100."
It is, fittingly, Jim Brown.

My contact is bugging me today so at times things are blurry before I blink a few times. At first glance I thought that said Tim instead of Jim and I nearly fainted.