Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JWL wrote:I liked Michael Dean Perry a ton too.

Yeah, I have him top 20-21 all-time

JohnTurney wrote: plus the testimonials...make Young a Hall of Famer.

.

Well, we've already proven one of them lied about it.

Hail Casares wrote: Well, we've already proven one of them lied about it.

LOL. Okay.

Wow, so according to the game logs, Schlereth lied about having played against Young. He needs to be called out and shamed for this.

JWL, sounds like you didn't read this discussion from the beginning. I mentioned several times that Young made the second team of the all-1990s team and also said several times that in no way, shape or form should he have (at least not over Michael Dean Perry). There is absolutely no reasonably accessible criterion by which that should have happened. I've already listed the far greater number of times Perry was selected first team all-pro than Young by experts who made those determinations at the time, plus major advantages in other honors, which I find far more important than conversations people are having 20 years later. Those conversation apparently include people who claim they played against Young, rave about him, then it comes out they never played against him at all.

We've had numerous discussions about why all-decade teams are nice decorations but should have absolutely no role in determining whether someone gets in the HOF because they are flawed in oh so many ways. I've probably said more about the subject than just about anyone so won't go into any detail but just think about all the mistakes that have been made besides Young and also think about how ridiculous it is to evaluate players' career based on how they did in arbitrary 10-year periods.

John, I brought Perry up because of the ridiculous choice of Young instead of him to the 1990s team. If it's been proven that Schlereth lied, I think you'd have to admit that undermines your position some. And regarding another point you raised, it would be a real crying shame if Young is in because he had a highly visible well-oiled PR campaign working on his behalf and that Perry, the clearly superior HOF candidate, is left out to dry because he had no such thing (and I'm not saying necessarily Perry should be in the HOF, though I'm becoming more and more convinced he should largely because of those amazing five first team all-pros on the experts' Sporting News team). Setting aside our disagreements about whether Young should be in or whether Young or Perry or anybody else is more deserving, I sure hope you would agree that we have sunk pretty low if it's now down to whether a player has a high profile, well-oiled PR campaign working on his behalf or not.

JohnTurney wrote:

Hail Casares wrote: Well, we've already proven one of them lied about it.

LOL. Okay.

What games did Schlereth play against Young to formulate his testimonial?

We'll wait.

Andy Piascik wrote: If it's been proven that Schlereth lied, I think you'd have to admit that undermines your position some.

Not really---there is too much more testimonial than from Stink. However, to the extent he said he played vs Young--his memory is likely from preseason. Still, where I will agree he should say that. But he has memories of playing those games and for preparing for Young, even if he didn't play, he'd have been part of the gameplan. But there are guys like Timmerman, too

here is Twitter so people can call him out and shame him, they are free to do it - @markschlereth

Hail Casares wrote: What games did Schlereth play against Young to formulate his testimonial?

We'll wait.

it would have to be preseason, in a day when they played a decent amount of time.

Andy Piascik wrote:Wow, so according to the game logs, Schlereth lied about having played against Young. He needs to be called out and shamed for this.

The ONLY possible game was a 1994 matchup between the Redskins and the Niners. *According to PFR* Schlereth did not start that game but it's listed as him having played. Young is listed as having played and started. It was also Young's rookie season. Is there a preseason game I'm missing? By the next season, Schlereth was onto the AFC. Their PB appearances don't line up.

So at ABSOLUTE best, Schlereth's testimonial is based on some possible limited snaps he saw as a backup in 1994 against a rookie Bryant Young in a 37-22 loss

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 060was.htm

JohnTurney wrote:

Hail Casares wrote: What games did Schlereth play against Young to formulate his testimonial?

We'll wait.

it would have to be preseason, in a day when they played a decent amount of time.

HA! That's it?!

Now it's gone from Schlereth played against him to...he didn't...well maybe in the preseason....he sat in on game planning meetings?!

This is the type of stuff that gets people into the HOF now?

Absurd.

It appears the Broncos and Niners played in the preseason a few times during their respective tenures. Most often early in the preseason when starters barely played. One game appears to be a split-squad scrimmage of some kind.

This is getting hilarious.

Maybe Bryant Young made some pre-season All Pro teams or something to help bolster his resume.