Bryant Young HoF

[JohnTurney]

Complete package, can do everything...yet..you say they couldn't.

Why did Young have more run stuffs than Sapp or Randle? almost doubles Randle.

The reason is if you watched them play you'd know that Sapp and Randle played the jet technique, they didn't play the run. They made some run stops on the way to QB
Both Randle and Sapp were 3-techniques.

And Stink said this: Mark Schlereth: One of the things about Hall of Fame voting that is interesting to me, and I think for a lot of guys is that it’s not so much about statistics but how you felt about a particular player. It’s one of those things, I don’t know exactly how to explain what a Hall of Famer is, but I know one when I see him.

When I played and we played the Niners, I played left guard for Denver at that time. I played against Dana Stubblefield, who was a defensive player of the year and had all kinds of accolades. When we played the Niners, our coaches told me you’re one-on-one this weekend with Stubblefield because the other dude (Bryant Young) is a real live bitch, that sumbitch can play. You’ll be fine on the other side against the defensive player of the year, but we need help and we’re going to turn protection to BY. That’s the kind of respect our coaches had for BY, that’s the kind of respect we had for him as a player.

I used to joke around all the time that I pray for that guy to get sick. Not permanently, just on Sunday. That would help us out quite a bit. He was that much of a problem from a game-planning standpoint.

We used to call them when I was playing “War Daddies.” Any time you have one of those War Daddies how are you going to figure out how you’re going to block that guy. Every time you break the freaking huddle, you’re getting four hands on that dude. You’re double-teaming him 100% of the time. That’s what made him great, he made you change game plans or create game plans for how you were going to contend with him. Every time I played him, even after he broke his leg, he was that much of a problem for us. So that’s kind of how I feel about BY.”

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So Sink can have respect for both...Sapp and Randle...but interms of complete player Young was complete, the others were pass rushers
Sapp averaged 5 stuffs and 8 sacks, Randle -3 stuffs and 10 sacks, Young- 6 stuffs and 7 sacks----and Young played both shade and 3-tech

[Andy Piascik]

For the record, the 49ers and Broncos played exactly twice during the time Schlereth was with Denver and both times were during Young's peak, not during those many years when the experts left him off their all-pro teams. In 1997, the year of the first of those games, Young missed four games and Schlereth missed five while in 2000, the year of the second of those games, Young missed one game and Schlereth missed eight so it's conceivable they didn't even play against each other twice.

Either way, I think we can all agree that testimony about a player from someone who played against him once or twice maximum should be taken together with several very large shakers of salt. It reminds me of how Belichick was apparently able to completely sway the Centennial Committee to elect Covert by raving about how well Covert played against the Giants. Turns out the Bears played the Giants exactly three times during Covert's career including playoffs (2.4% of his total games including playoffs). And he might not have played all three of those games as he missed 10 games in his 8-year career.

If the Selection Committee is now electing people to the HOF based on one or two games, then we have really sunk lower than even I thought.

[JohnTurney]

For the record, the 49ers and Broncos played exactly twice during the time Schlereth was with Denver and both times were during Young's peak, not during those many years when the experts left him off their all-pro teams. In 1997, the year of the first of those games, Young missed four games and Schlereth missed five while in 2000, the year of the second of those games, Young missed one game and Schlereth missed eight so it's conceivable they didn't even play against each other twice.

Either way, I think we can all agree that testimony about a player from someone who played against him once or twice maximum should be taken together with several very large shakers of salt. It reminds me of how Belichick was apparently able to completely sway the Centennial Committee to elect Covert by raving about how well Covert played against the Giants. Turns out the Bears played the Giants exactly three times during Covert's career including playoffs (2.4% of his total games including playoffs). And he might not have played all three of those games as he missed 10 games in his 8-year career.

If the Selection Committee is now electing people to the HOF based on one or two games, then we have really sunk lower than even I thought.

Hmm, so how many times did he play Sapp? The point being he was being used to tout Sapp . . . teams in opposite conferences only played every three years...what matters is if Stink is telling the truth, I can only think that he is...

also, made error in earlier post---PSI Randle 7 blue, 1 red (8 above the first line), Sapp 6 blue, 2 red (8 above the first line), Young 6 blue 7 red (13 above the line)...I said something different about Young earlier...my mistake

[Hail Casares]

A lot of stuff I didn't read.

Good work typing whatever you did.

[Hail Casares]

For the record, the 49ers and Broncos played exactly twice during the time Schlereth was with Denver and both times were during Young's peak, not during those many years when the experts left him off their all-pro teams. In 1997, the year of the first of those games, Young missed four games and Schlereth missed five while in 2000, the year of the second of those games, Young missed one game and Schlereth missed eight so it's conceivable they didn't even play against each other twice.

Either way, I think we can all agree that testimony about a player from someone who played against him once or twice maximum should be taken together with several very large shakers of salt. It reminds me of how Belichick was apparently able to completely sway the Centennial Committee to elect Covert by raving about how well Covert played against the Giants. Turns out the Bears played the Giants exactly three times during Covert's career including playoffs (2.4% of his total games including playoffs). And he might not have played all three of those games as he missed 10 games in his 8-year career.

If the Selection Committee is now electing people to the HOF based on one or two games, then we have really sunk lower than even I thought.

I read this. Excellent points, as usual.

I went back and looked.... and if PFR's gamelogs are to be trusted: Shlereth was inactive for the 1997 matchup with SF and was on IR for the 2000 matchup.

In comparison to Sapp: Schlereth played TB twice (96 and 99) and was active for both games..as was Sapp

For Randle MS and JR would have butted heads in: 1992 and 1999 (there were two other matchups IIRC when looking that MS would have missed due to injury, 1994 and 1996)

[JohnTurney]

A lot of stuff I didn't read.

Good work typing whatever you did.

Well, at least keep up your high level of discourse...now I am aware this is a flame board.

[JohnTurney]

PSI grades---- Randle 7 blue, 1 red (8 above the first line), Sapp 6 blue, 2 red (8 above the first line), Young 6 blue 7 red (13 above the line)

That and the 4 Pro Bowls (and the 2 All-Pros) ---not even counting being consistent enough for 6 alternate Pro Bowls. The high level of the run defense of the 49ers, plus the testimonials...make Young a Hall of Famer.

Certainly, people will disagree. Too bad it's not been done agreeably. If someone does not think Young is a Hall of Famer, fine. I disagree. And it's not even a close call in my view given the totality of the case. But that's my opinion.

[JWL]

Young did make the 1990s All Decade Team. Roger Staubach and Ray Nitschke did not have a ton of All Pro honors. Sometimes it is a numbers game.

When I watched Young I thought I was looking at a Hall of Fame type of player. It seemed to me he was great against the run and also was a good interior pass rusher. I didn't feel I was looking at a Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana no-doubter type but did think I was looking at a lower tier one like Tom Mack or Sonny Jurgensen.

[JohnTurney]

Young did make the 1990s All Decade Team. Roger Staubach and Ray Nitschke did not have a ton of All Pro honors. Sometimes it is a numbers game.

When I watched Young I thought I was looking at a Hall of Fame type of player. It seemed to me he was great against the run and also was a good interior pass rusher. I didn't feel I was looking at a Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana no-doubter type but did think I was looking at a lower tier one like Tom Mack or Sonny Jurgensen.

Same. Then seeing the PSI evaluations . . . even the Joel Buchsbaum stuff. . . but eye-test is different, but the more I learned details, the more I easily see By as HOFer.

And since Andy brought up MD. Perry, it would be those things I'd start with and I would make sure voters didn't use AP-only approach. Not only that he's got good numbers for his position . . . but getting on the phone with guards of the 1990s and getting testimonials from them would be huge in his case. IMO they would talk very well about him. Matthews, Munchack, Wisniewski, Stinky, etc....No one did that for Perry...the voter should have started it... maybe Clay Matthews was the priority

[JWL]

I liked Michael Dean Perry a ton too.