Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

conace21 wrote: And I never described Young being a backup to Joe as an accomplishment that adds to his HOF resume. I'm just saying that it doesn't detract from it. What's the shame in being a backup to the greatest QB of the generation?

No shame at all. I don't think it takes anything away from his MVPs and ring and his 8 great years. Nothing at all. Those things make him a HOFer. But it DOES leave a void. And that void, in my view, which is a minority view, that takes away, by definition from the 1st ballot resume. It's the same for Warner, IMO, there is no shame in him getting hurt and having the donut hole, it doesn't take away from his 2 MVPs and ring but it is several years on non-production. I contend that Young;s pre-1991 career was non-productive. And due to that he's not one of the best of the best. And to me, at least until Jason Taylor got in 1st ballot, onlt the best of the best should get into HOF on 1st try.

Trust me, I get your point. I get that you and Ness like Young (Ness is 49er fan) and think he's in the upper echelon of HOF QBs. All of the HOF QBs, at their peak, look like the best of the best. But one thing that separates players is doing the great things for a long time. Coach TJ calls it sustained brilliance. I honestly don't think a case can be made that for his time and place his was great his entire career, maybe through no fault of his own. But 1987-90 were non-productive years—he threw an average of 80 passes a year...I think that has to take away from his 1st ballot resume. And to me, 8 years of brilliance is on low end for HOF QB. So those 2 MVPs and 1 ring don't mitigate the non-productive years. Maybe if the 1991-98 49ers were a mini-dynasty like Dallas...then his 8 great years would outweigh the 7 non-productive ones.

But I get it, you disagree and as always, I respect your view. And I understand it.

Bryan wrote:Using this logic, I can spin your anti-Unitas diatribe into a positive...Unitas was so good that he sent the 1968 "NFL Championship" QB and reigning MVP back to the bench in 1969. I don't recall how effective Unitas was from that point on in his career, but the timeline tells me that he put an NFL Championship QB/MVP on the bench, he won another ring, then he went to a different team and kept another 1st ballot HOF QB on the bench.

This forum provides a great break from reality at times.

Plus it's kind of a reach to even bring Unitas into it. Unitas had a 13-year run bookended by 2 MVPs with 2 more in the middle and back-to-back championships, and then got hurt and had 2 more seasons and got a ring for at least he started the whole season, though Morrall did earn the Super Bowl V win. Throw in 50th Anniversary team, 1960s All-Decade.

With Young, it was 8 seasons, not 13+2. With Young, he was not 1990s All-Decade. Just don't see enough of a parallel. Warner is closer except for where the donut hole appears.

Bryan wrote:That has nothing to do with what I said. I don't understand the 'clarification' of "Young being a backup QB" to "Young being a backup QB to Joe Montana", as if that is some sort of notable accomplishment and should be viewed through the HOF lens differently than if Young had been a backup to Scott Brunner. Using this logic, I can spin your anti-Unitas diatribe into a positive...

You brought up Unitas. I'm a huge fan of his. I was agreeing with you -and expanding on what people 'could' say- that it doesn't detract from what he did. Since you said "Jack Scarbath" and I politely changed that to "1955" and added the rest of the "yeah, but" people could theoretically use.

I'm not seeing where Young being a backup QB to Montana -instead of Brunner?- was called an accomplishment? Maybe that's the disconnect. I did see people, myself included, say/imply that being a backup to Montana did not detract from his accomplishments, in their opinion(s).

If I understand your question then my answer would be I'm not a big what-if person and just go by what did happen. Steve Young was definitely Montana's backup but I don't think that takes away from his career. Being a backup QB merely took "chances"/seasons away from the possibility of adding to his accomplishments, but I do not think it detracts or subtracts from the accomplishments he did accumulate in his career.

As for 1st-ballot, which I do not care about. Prior to Young there was plenty of players who were NOT 1st-ballot who people think should have been as well as players who were 1st-ballot who people think shouldn't have been. Steve Young did not ruin the alleged purity of "1st-ballot", in my opinion.