Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JWL wrote:

conace21 wrote:Brady has had a fantastic career, but who knows if he ever would have gotten a real chance of Bledsoe hadn't been injured.

Bledsoe wasn't really good after 1997 or 1998 or so. He was mediocre. I believe Brady would have taken over the starting role later on in 2001 or in 2002 if Bledsoe didn't get injured in the second game of 2001. Of all the horrible stuff I have to hear and deal with as a Jets fan, the idea that Mo Lewis started the Patriots dynasty is the dumbest, most annoying, and most nonsensical.

Bledsoe was probably the second best QB in the AFC for the second half of the 1990's (behind Elway.) His decline started exactly halfway through the 1999 season, not 1997 or 1998. After 8 games in 1999, Bledsoe had 13 TD's, 4 INT's, 2300 yards, and 6 wins. (The only two losses came in the last seconds on a Vinatieri missed FG and a TD pass by Damon Huard.) Bledsoe looked to be taking the next step. Which makes his decline even more shocking. NE went 2-6 the rest of the way, and Bledsoe began throwing picks at an alarming rate. The INT's declined during the 5-11 season under Belichick, but Bledsoe started taking more sacks; he looked indecisive.

Interesting story about Rehbein. I never knew that.
But I wasn't saying that Brady never would have gotten a chance to start, but rather he may not have had a real chance to keep the job. If Belichick had benched Bledsoe, in 2001 or 2002, there would have been some calls for his head, especially with the memory of Bernie Kosar. (I don't think Kraft would have listened to those calls, especially early on.) There was plenty of controversy in real life in 2001, and this was even with Brady winning some games while Bledsoe was injured.
Brady's early performances were up and down. I'm his first 8 games, I count three spectacular games (@ Ind, Atl, SD) two horrible games (Den, Mia) and three average games (Ind, Buf, St. L.) Now, after St. Louis, he played much better. Bledsoe was injured during those first 8 games, so Brady couldn't have lost his job. But if Bledsoe had been benched, Brady's very early performances (his first couple games) were probably not good enough to keep Bledsoe on the bench. Belichick probably had the stones to stick to the course, but he didn't have the coaching clout he does now When I say Brady may never have gotten a real chance, I mean he might have been just another in a long line of QB's who started a couple games and then went back to the bench, and never got a full chance to develop.

JWL wrote:

conace21 wrote:Brady has had a fantastic career, but who knows if he ever would have gotten a real chance of Bledsoe hadn't been injured.

Bledsoe wasn't really good after 1997 or 1998 or so. He was mediocre. I believe Brady would have taken over the starting role later on in 2001 or in 2002 if Bledsoe didn't get injured in the second game of 2001. Of all the horrible stuff I have to hear and deal with as a Jets fan, the idea that Mo Lewis started the Patriots dynasty is the dumbest, most annoying, and most nonsensical.

I am not sure if it is. That injury started the perfect storm that led to their first SB win. If Brady takes over in 2002 (like someone talked about earlier) without a ring, I am not sure if his career plays out the same. Don't underestimate the mental edge gained by winning a title.

A couple of interesting things about Brady's first couple of years with the Patriots. In 2000, veteran John Friesz was nominally Bledsoe's backup, but Michael Bishop was generally considered New England's QB of the future. Brady was actually their fourth-string QB. But how many teams have ever carried four quarterbacks? They kept Brady as their 4th QB in 2000 and cut both Friesz and Bishop in 2001. Obviously, he had become the new QB of the future and had vaulted over two other guys to become Bledsoe's backup. And keep in mind that, at the time Bledsoe got hurt, the Patriots had lost 13 of their last 18 games with him at QB. Belichick was not happy with the way he had been playing and he was already planning to make the move after giving Brady another season on the bench.

That's possible, but I am not sure if he would have made that decision until training camp 2001 when Brady showed how much he improved. The year before, there was no way of knowing what Brady would be. They probably get rid of Bishop in 2000 if they knew that Brady was their future then.

And, here's another angle: What if the Pats won their first two games of the 01 season with Bledsoe? Against Cincy in Week 1, Bledsoe appeared to have picked up a first down on a 4th and 2 QB sneak (around the Cincy 38 with about 3 minutes left), but the official gave him a bad spot. Then, after the Pats stuffed their future teammate Corey Dillon on three straight runs, they got the ball back again around their own 30. And again, the officials screwed him on second down. He got a pass off to Kevin Faulk on second down, but they incorrectly ruled that Drew was in the grasp, setting up a 3rd and 18. On that play, Drew threw a 17-yard comeback route to Bert Emanuel, but just like in the 1999 NFC Title Game, he didn't get credit for a catch (this one was more questionable, though) near the ground. Adrian Ross sacked Drew on the next play, and the game was over.

Then in Week 2, Marc Edwards had a key fumble or two that hurt NE's chances. They could have won both of those games, and they may have had a shot at a WC berth with a vastly weaker schedule than the year before (and a better roster). In that case, how are you going to put the unproven Brady in there knowing that Drew has a big contract? I don't think you can.

The problem with all these alternate realities and stories - no matter what side you're on - is that we actually have what happened.

- They did sign Bledsoe to a huge 10-year deal and they didn't do it so that he could be the backup in 2001 (or 2002).

- Bledsoe did get injured, which is why/how Brady became the starting QB.

- The Patriots did win the SB.

There's no, "The Patriots gave Bledsoe a 10-year deal even though they knew he wasn't the future. Kraft was obviously lying when he looked in love talking about how one of the great Patriots players would get to play his entire career for NE."

There's no, "If Bledsoe didn't get injured we would have never heard of Brady" ... Bledsoe did get injured.

And so on.

BD Sullivan wrote:

JuggernautJ wrote:Wasn't it Belichick who let Bernie Kosar go?

"BB" has done a fair job of evaluating talent and maximizing potential in his current run as a head coach.
I'm hazarding a guess he might have figured out which QB gave him the best chance to win.

When Belichick let Kosar go, his preferred QB was Vinny Testaverde--who happened to be injured. That left him with Todd Philcox leading a 5-3 team that was tied for first with Pittsburgh. The Browns went into a 2-6 tailspin that saw them finish five games out of first.

I think Belichick might get a bit of a bad rap for the Kosar release. It wasn't a unilateral decision, by any means. Kosar was not playing particularly well but, more important to Belichick, he was publicly blaming the game planning for his own deficiencies. Belichick told Modell that he wanted to get rid of Kosar; that resulted in a meeting of the entire coaching staff with Modell, at which every coach agreed that Kosar had to go. So he went.

I remember a documentary several years ago where Belichick alluded to Brady outplaying Bledsoe in camp, pre-season, and practice in 2001 and the only reason Bledsoe was starting was Bledsoe's salary and standing.

Bledsoe was still a competent QB at that time, just not the guy he was in 1996 or 1997.

I do feel bad for Mo. He had a tremendous career. 3x Pro Bowler and and an All Pro selection as well in 1998. But this will be what he is most remembered for. Right or wrong. For Jets fans it's almost like Norwood territory.

rhickok1109 wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:

JuggernautJ wrote:Wasn't it Belichick who let Bernie Kosar go?

"BB" has done a fair job of evaluating talent and maximizing potential in his current run as a head coach.
I'm hazarding a guess he might have figured out which QB gave him the best chance to win.

When Belichick let Kosar go, his preferred QB was Vinny Testaverde--who happened to be injured. That left him with Todd Philcox leading a 5-3 team that was tied for first with Pittsburgh. The Browns went into a 2-6 tailspin that saw them finish five games out of first.

I think Belichick might get a bit of a bad rap for the Kosar release. It wasn't a unilateral decision, by any means. Kosar was not playing particularly well but, more important to Belichick, he was publicly blaming the game planning for his own deficiencies. Belichick told Modell that he wanted to get rid of Kosar; that resulted in a meeting of the entire coaching staff with Modell, at which every coach agreed that Kosar had to go. So he went.

I'd fault Belichick for the timing as much as anything. Weeb Ewbank once said about his 50's Colts team mavericks. "I'd put up with them until I could replace them, and then I'd get rid of them." Forget the hero status of Bernie. It was not a logical decision. Vinny Testaverde was injured at the time, and by cutting him, they had to go to Todd Philcox. That was not a suitable replacement for Kosar. On his first play as a starter, Philcox lost the ball and Seattle ran it in for a TD. The Seattle defense outscored the Cleveland offense 9-3. 57 passing yards, 7 turnovers. 22-5 loss.

I'd fault Belichick for the timing as much as anything. Weeb Ewbank once said about his 50's Colts team mavericks. "I'd put up with them until I could replace them, and then I'd get rid of them." Forget the hero status of Bernie. It was not a logical decision. Vinny Testaverde was injured at the time, and by cutting him, they had to go to Todd Philcox. That was not a suitable replacement for Kosar. On his first play as a starter, Philcox lost the ball and Seattle ran it in for a TD. The Seattle defense outscored the Cleveland offense 9-3. 57 passing yards, 7 turnovers. 22-5 loss.

Good point.

Looking back, I wonder why they didn't trade Bernie away by the end of training camp. I don't think Bill signed Vinny to be a backup.

Speaking of Brady and "one that got away", though, here's another story:

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/tom-brady- ... 40fb4.html

Apparently, Mike Riley (when he was Charger HC in 2000) was interested in Brady, but Charger GM Bobby Beathard wasn't.