Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Banks will be top 20 which is understandable but Bavaro might still make it, unless I missed somebody?

JohnTurney wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 6:10 pm

pgconboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:36 pm New batch:

21 - Arnie Weinmeister
22 - Jim Katcavage
23 - Del Shofner
24 - Kyle Rote
25 - George Martin
26 - Leonard Marshall
27 - Homer Jones
28 - Brad Van Pelt
29 - Joe Morrison
30 - Justin Tuck

Will wait and see, but in my mind Shofner and Van Pelt are top 20 Giants ...

There is no quantitative measure why Carl Banks would be above Van Pelt, unless its "timing of career".

Not sure where guys like Tuffy Leemans or Harry Newman will rank, if anywhere at this point. Overall, the list is a bit wonky, but not terrible. I guess I am surprised at being completely underwhelmed with most of the guys on the Giants all-time team. Most of these guys didn't really move the needle when they played. I guess it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with a top 100 list of the Eagles or Redskins.

Despite his importance in helping the Giants win two championships, Carl Banks accolades and numbers are too light to put him in the HOF. His best season was 1987, when the team went off the rails. He missed a lot of games in 1990 as well. I thought he was in on more tackles than listed, but one of his few 100 tackle-seasons happened with the Redskins ...

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:37 am Despite his importance in helping the Giants win two championships, Carl Banks accolades and numbers are too light to put him in the HOF. His best season was 1987, when the team went off the rails. He missed a lot of games in 1990 as well. I thought he was in on more tackles than listed, but one of his few 100 tackle-seasons happened with the Redskins ...

Agree with your overall take. Just a note on tackles -- always have to be careful to note if PFR is using coach's totals or from the gamebooks ---
Also, they don't have a lot of the other "touch" stats back then. Banks was obviously great when you watch him. But so was Wilber Marshall and others
but just looking at stats -- as a complete LBer, not a true edge ... he had, IMO, 3 years worthy of Pro Bowl, you might throw in 1991, I don't know.

Was Redskins total of 102 tackles was from coaches. The gamebooks show 54 and 11 (Stats, LLC shows 53 and 9 for 62) either way it's not 100. I am trying to get PFR to get the old stuff but they won't publish it without "context" meaning they want all of it at one time. The issue for me is, some much of their pre-1999 "touch" stats -- tackles, PDs, FF, FRs ... are out of context now. jesse Tuggle's tackles are from coaches and are super high. the gamebooks show different numbers...

anyway, that's just a rant by me. Here is what I have ...

Thanks John ... yeah, he seemed more impactful watching him than raw stats, and 1986 was a better year than 87 but winning it all brought more notice. I feel Seth Joyner for the Eagles has just as much a HOF argument, if not more.

Joe Morrison was very underrated as a coach. He went right from the Giants to the head coaching job at Tennessee-Chattanooga. Went 10-1 as the Head Coach at New Mexico in 1982.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:40 pm I feel Seth Joyner for the Eagles has just as much a HOF argument, if not more.

I agree. Wilber Marshall, too

Bryan may be right ... Tuffy Leemans might be one of the Top 20, if it's not Cannady or someone else? Ken Strong will be one of them as well, so I believe I covered everyone but one spot. I think Bavaro will make it, too.

Newest list from 20-11 ...

11) Simms
12) YA Tittle
13) Conerly
14) Barber
15) Leemans
16) Toomer
17) Banks
18) Bavaro
19) Strong
20) Patton

Tittle helped win three consecutive division titles with the Giants but was only there for four seasons. I feel Conerly should be ranked ahead of him due to his great rookie season, longevity as a Giant, helping acclimate Vince Lombardi to pro football and winning a championship despite losing two championship games to a great Colts team.

Patton's ability to force turnovers, and importance to the Giants defense, should have ranked him higher. Leemans was the player I forgot to list in my top 30. Glad Bavaro made the list.

Toomer above Strong?