Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

sheajets wrote:What I saw out of Mark Sanchez...he's really one of the worst for a guy who played as much as he did in the era that he did behind the line that he had. Just a bad long term starter. Can be in that JohnH19 group. Bad long term starters.

Poor accuracy, easily baited into a lot of interceptions, no feel for the pocket, no ability at all to read a defense, happy feet, didn't protect the football. Made the most puzzling nonsense decisions at the wrong times.

I think he left school a year too early, didn't he? That's a guy who could have used another year of college.

Speaking of bad Jet QB's, though, what about Matt Robinson? Red Miller falls in love with him over one game (a comeback win in 1978 over his Broncos), and trades a first, second, and Craig Penrose for him (Miller wanted Marc Wilson, but didn't think he would fall to 20 where Denver was picking). 1980 turned out to be a lost season in Denver after that trade, and Miller was gone a year later when Edgar Kaiser came in (he wanted a coach and GM closer to his age, which is why he hired Reeves and Grady Alderman).

This could well be my favorite thread of all-time here. I'd say the list includes Randy Johnson, Steve Spurrier, Kim McQuilken, Dennis Shaw, Kent Nix,Dan Darragh, and Joe Reed. I know Shaw was Rookie of the Year and he Bills weren't particulary good while he was there, but it doesn't add up.

vikingsfan1963 wrote:This could well be my favorite thread of all-time here. I'd say the list includes Randy Johnson, Steve Spurrier, Kim McQuilken, Dennis Shaw, Kent Nix,Dan Darragh, and Joe Reed. I know Shaw was Rookie of the Year and he Bills weren't particulary good while he was there, but it doesn't add up.

Shaw winning rookie of the year in 1970 always seemed like an oddity to me. Probably one of the weakest rookie of the years of all time. It was a really weak year for rookies in '70. Duane Thomas may have been a better choice.

ChrisBabcock wrote:

vikingsfan1963 wrote:This could well be my favorite thread of all-time here. I'd say the list includes Randy Johnson, Steve Spurrier, Kim McQuilken, Dennis Shaw, Kent Nix,Dan Darragh, and Joe Reed. I know Shaw was Rookie of the Year and he Bills weren't particulary good while he was there, but it doesn't add up.

Shaw winning rookie of the year in 1970 always seemed like an oddity to me. Probably one of the weakest rookie of the years of all time. It was a really weak year for rookies in '70. Duane Thomas may have been a better choice.

Duane Thomas' 803 yards were below standard for ROY. Offensive ROY for a long time was dominated by RBs. The next year John Brockington, who set some records, won over Jim Plunkett. Brockington was outstanding, but maybe if you look at degree of difficulty, you go with Plunkett.

After Shaw, there wasn't another offensive ROY as QB until Rothlisberger. 34 years. There have been more since then.

When you look at the Bills, Briscoe and Moses at WR were good players. TE Austin Denney was not. Offensive line was a mess. Simpson missed half the year, and there were no other good RB. All things considered, it was a pretty good performance by Shaw. Like Plunkett, he tailed off after the rookie year. Shaw never recovered. Maybe didn't do his film work, lost his confidence, I don't know. But his rookie year was actually pretty good.

ChrisBabcock wrote:Shaw winning rookie of the year in 1970 always seemed like an oddity to me. Probably one of the weakest rookie of the years of all time. It was a really weak year for rookies in '70. Duane Thomas may have been a better choice.

Give me Tony Cline and his 17.5 sacks for 1970 ROTY. Cline was like the Dennis Shaw of DEs, too.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

sheajets wrote:What I saw out of Mark Sanchez...he's really one of the worst for a guy who played as much as he did in the era that he did behind the line that he had. Just a bad long term starter. Can be in that JohnH19 group. Bad long term starters.

Poor accuracy, easily baited into a lot of interceptions, no feel for the pocket, no ability at all to read a defense, happy feet, didn't protect the football. Made the most puzzling nonsense decisions at the wrong times.

I think he left school a year too early, didn't he? That's a guy who could have used another year of college.

Speaking of bad Jet QB's, though, what about Matt Robinson? Red Miller falls in love with him over one game (a comeback win in 1978 over his Broncos), and trades a first, second, and Craig Penrose for him (Miller wanted Marc Wilson, but didn't think he would fall to 20 where Denver was picking). 1980 turned out to be a lost season in Denver after that trade, and Miller was gone a year later when Edgar Kaiser came in (he wanted a coach and GM closer to his age, which is why he hired Reeves and Grady Alderman).

The trouble with Robinson is that he kind of looked the part. Good mechanics, smart guy, very gritty and hard working quarterback who was fearless. His decision making was very poor though. And he had a slight build. When he got crushed you were happy he wasn't dead. Too big a risk taker. But I guess when you really have no "gifts" to play the position you hang on the and do what you can.

fwiw I see he was listed at 196 but I swear some games he looked no more than 180 or something.

Bryan wrote:

JohnH19 wrote:Hill, Ninowski and Gary Cuozzo are the types of guys who belong on this list; ineffective QBs who received substantial playing time over the course of lengthy careers.

Yeah, there needs to be some type of cumulative "negative/below average" tally. If you are bad for 10 straight years of starting, that cumulative effect is worse than being terrible for half a season. I had an old thread about QBs who were consistent starters and accomplished very little...I think it got lost in the transition to the new forum, but guys like Jay Fiedler, Mike Pagel, Lynn Dickey and Jay Cutler were on the list.

Somewhat off-topic, but what about the 1977 Cowboys postseason run? They faced Bob Avellini in the divisional round, backup Bob Lee in the NFC Championship, and 'bad hip' Craig Morton in the Super Bowl...they were basically handed the title that year.

Hey, Lynn Dickey was the closest to 30-for-30 before Jameis finished the job. He may be the only QB ever with a PY/TD/INT triple crown, not sure. He certainly did things, whether they're good things is up to your personal opinion. But either way I wouldn't say he's anywhere near all-time bad, even among decently enduring "franchise" QBs only.

I've come up with a list of the QBs who had the worst individual season (among all qualifying passers) for each of the last 54 years of the Super Bowl era.

1966: Dick Wood, Dolphins
1967: Pete Beathard, Oilers
1968: Dan Darragh, Bills
1969: Jack Kemp, Bills
1970: Joe Kapp, Patriots
1971: Bobby Douglass, Bears
1972: John Reaves, Eagles
1973: Norm Snead, Giants
1974: Archie Manning, Saints
1975: Gary Huff, Bears
1976: Joe Namath, Jets
1977: Joe Pisarcik, Giants
1978: Steve DeBerg, 49ers
1979: Steve Fuller, Chiefs
1980: David Woodley, Dolphins
1981: Vince Evans, Bears
1982: Brian Sipe, Browns
1983: Ed Luther, Chargers
1984: Joe Ferguson, Bills
1985: Vince Ferragamo, Bills
1986: Jack Trudeau, Colts
1987: Mark Malone, Steelers
1988: Rusty Hilger, Lions
1989: Troy Aikman, Cowboys
1990: Marc Wilson, Patriots
1991: Jeff Kemp, Seahawks-Eagles
1992: Stan Gelbaugh, Seahawks
1993: Mark Rypien, Reddskins
1994: Chris Miller, Rams
1995: Boomer Esiason, Jets
1996: Dave Brown, Giants
1997: Kerry Collins, Panthers
1998: Craig Whelihan, Chargers
1999: Jake Plummer, Cardinals
2000: Akii Smith, Bengals
2001: Alex Van Pelt, Bills
2002: Joey Harrington, Lions
2003: Kelly Holcomb, Browns
2004: A.J. Feeley, Dolphins
2005: Kyle Orton, Bears
2006: Andrew Walter, Raiders
2007: Marc Bulger, Rams
2008: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bengals
2009: Josh Freeman, Buccaneers
2010:Jimmy Clausen, Panthers
2011: Sam Bradford, Rams
2012: Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars
2013: Matt Schaub, Texans
2014: Josh McCown, Buccaneers
2015: Payton Manning, Broncos
2016: Case Keenum, Rams
2017: Trevor Siemian, Broncos
2018: Josh Rosen, Cardinals
2019: Mason Rudolph, Steelers

Two Super Bowl MVPs and two league MVPs are on that list. Interesting.

Todd Pence wrote:I've come up with a list of the QBs who had the worst individual season (among all qualifying passers) for each of the last 54 years of the Super Bowl era.

1970: Joe Kapp, Patriots

1973: Norm Snead, Giants

1982: Brian Sipe, Browns

1984: Joe Ferguson, Bills

1993: Mark Rypien, Reddskins

2013: Matt Schaub, Texans

2015: Payton Manning, Broncos

2016: Case Keenum, Rams

Its interesting how many of these QBs had put together strong seasons not too long before hitting the bottom.