"Three Studs on the O-Line" article

[oldecapecod11]

Saban wrote:
"Very good analysis Coach. Very good OL with Gifford, Webster, and Triplett running the ball, later joined by Phil King and Joe Morrison. Conerly an underrated QB with Tittle coming in 1961. And that defense with Robustelli, Grier, Modzelewski, and Katcavage (maybe the first fearsome foursome), with Huff, Svoboda, Livingston, and Scott as linebackers and Patton, Lynch, and Linden Crow then Barnes as DB's. No wonder those Giants were so tough. It didn't hurt to have Lombardi coaching the offense and Landry coaching the defense either."

=====

http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/01/21/his ... 1950-1959/

1956: After 31 seasons at the Polo Grounds the Giants leave the crumbling old ballpark for Yankee Stadium. In their first season at Yankee Stadium the Giants jump out of the gate quickly winning six of their first seven games. The Giants would go on to finish with an 8-3-1 record, which was good enough to capture the Eastern Conference Title. Leading the way was Frank Gifford, who earns the NFL MVP with a nine Touchdowns and 1,422 all-purpose yards. In the first NFL Championship Game played at Yankee Stadium the Giants would face the Chicago Bears. The game was over by halftime as the Giants established a 34-7 lead, on the way to a 47-7 victory. Leading the way for Big Blue was Quarterback Charlie Connerly, and bruising Fullback Alex Webster who walked all over the Bears all day. The Championship proved perfect timing for both the league and the Giants as the NFL was about ready for an explosion in popularity, and at the forefront was the New York Giants, who were quickly becoming household names. The NFL was eager to promote its stars, and with Madison Avenue knocking on the door, the Giants became the most recognizable team in the NFL, as stars ranging from the matinee idol Frank Gifford to the rugged Sam Huff landed in advertisements. However, two bright stars toiled in anonymity on the Giants coaching staff. Working under Coach Jim Lee Howell was Offense Coordinator Vince Lombardi, and Tom Landry who guided the Defense each would go on to establish legendary Head Coaching careers.

And on the D line...

https://taylorblitztimes.files.wordpres ... ewyork.jpg

[Saban1]

Saban » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:17 pm
"What!! The shabby way the Browns treated your Giants? What about the way Gifford, Webster, Huff, Robustelli and company treated the Browns during their salad years from 1956-63. They practically got Paul Brown fired.
I know that you are an old time fan like me, but most here are too young to remember what a really bitter rivalry that the Giants and Browns had.
BTW, Speaking of the three studs on the offensive line, how about Rosey Brown, Ray Wietecha, and Jack Stroud for the three studs on those Giants teams. Joining them in 1959 was Darrell Dess and Greg Larson in 1961 with Bill Austin through 1957."----
coachtj » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:40 pm
"....during the '55 season when nyg was struggling; st. vince discussed with the offensive line coach a new approach to blocking(zone). during the remainder of '55 through '58 the nyg ground attack improved(especially considering what was gained in '53). stroud when healthy was a rock solid performer, and wietecha was among the best centers in the league. no matter who played rt. tackle(usually yelvington), or left guard(austin and others)....they performed at a high level. based upon his age(he was one of the youngest players in the league)and improvement mr. rosey brown became an elite left tackle; and in my opinion one of the best ever at his position. check the sacks allowed numbers by nyg during this era; these guys could run block, yet they were by far the best in the league at pass blocking."

- - - - -

You both took the words from the tips of my fingers. This keyboard is practically making strokes of its own.
Yes! Yes! Yes! and Yes!
There was not a better trio in Football than Brown, Stroud and Wietecha in their day. It was an era when players
went to camp to get in shape after spending the off-season at their other jobs. They worked and did not have
the time to do drugs and beat up women and run dog shows.
Brown had a gym mat tied to a tree in his back yard. That was his blocking dummy - all year long.
Only a few know that much of the Giants' success earlier was Mel Hein's ACCURACY snapping the ball.
Well, Wietecha was selected in that mold. He could consistently hit the crossbar from the 10 at least nine
out of 10 times and did it often for the benefit of the press.
Toss into the mix he played 10 seasons and never missed a game. ('Course not too many did in those days...)
Stroud was. as tj states, rock solid. Charlie did not have golden wheels and yet, again per tj, there were very few sacks.
Whoops! Almost forgot... if you look at some old film and find a few rare stills, you'll see #79 and #66 on the goal line D.
Yup! That's Brown and Stroud.
Boo Hoo! I wish you guys would have commented on the exclusion of Marion M from the "Numbers Retired"
in Cuyahoga country...
One more kudo for Ray Wietecha... he snapped, among others, for Ben Agajanian and, if I recall, the placement
of the ball had to be slightly different and Ray got it there with no problem.

Jack Stroud was named at least to second team All-Pro every year from 1956 through 1962 except for 1958 when he missed a good part of the year because of injury. In 1963, center Ray Wietecha retired, so right tackle Greg Larson was moved to center in an effort to replace Wietecha. This left an opening at right tackle, so the Giants moved Stroud, who was 35 at the time, to right tackle from his usual position of right guard. The move probably cost Stroud any chance to make any All-Pro teams because he had some stiff competition from guys like Forrest Gregg, Dick Schafrath, Charley Bradshaw, and teammate Rosey Brown. Besides that, switching from guard to tackle is not always easy because the positions are really quite a bit different.

Anyway, Stroud apparently did well at his new position. The Giants easily led the NFL in points scored and QB Y.A. Tittle had his greatest year. Evidently, Tittle was well protected by his offensive line. Stroud was really a team player, making the move from guard to tackle had little benefit for him, but it helped the Giants. Bookie Bolin took the right guard spot in 1963.

[oldecapecod11]

Best wedge-buster I ever saw... and it cost him his career.

[Saban1]

Best wedge-buster I ever saw... and it cost him his career.

I heard that Mickey Walker was a tough guy on those special teams.

That is another thing that hurt the Giants in 1964. Most people blame the Huff trade and Modzelewski trade and the Giants generally getting old, but Walker was injured quite a bit in 1964 and 1965 and he was missed on those special teams after being a tiger on them from 1961-63. Also, 36 year old Stroud was injured some in 1964, missing 5 games and maybe parts of others, and Phil King was traded, and Lovetere injured his knee, etc., etc. I guess that a lot of bad things happened to the Giants in 1964.

Speaking of the Giants, my favorites on those teams were Kyle Rote and Alex Webster. I loved the way Rote would catch passes and I liked the hard way Webster used to run.

[oldecapecod11]

... and then, along came Tucker Frederickson, the Mickey Mantle of the New York Football Giants - hurt, hurt, hurt...
Auburn University Coach Shug Jordan called him "the most complete football player I've ever seen".

[Saban1]

... and then, along came Tucker Frederickson, the Mickey Mantle of the New York Football Giants - hurt, hurt, hurt...
Auburn University Coach Shug Jordan called him "the most complete football player I've ever seen".

Frederickson was an excellent blocker as well as runner. I liked Ernie Koy on those later 1960's Giants teams. Then there was Joe Morrison, a real good one, IMO.

[coachtj]

....the dulcet tones of mr. jack whitaker in narrating the '65 nyg highlight film "the year of the big surprise" was sure fun to watch this afternoon. though their career's are winding down; lynch, patton(on safety blitzes), and katcavage still have their moments, yet for me mr. carl lockhart was just a joy to watch. he played the run tough, tackled well, and was a ballhawk. mr. brown is still a force at left tackle, and the plodding baby bulls run hard. when you watch homer jones literally run away from corners you know that teams are gonna have to resort to "roll coverage" weak and as such aaron thomas has a pro bowl season. from the debacle of '64 nyg must have given their fans hope after the improvement in '65.....but as we all know a train wreck of a season is coming.

[oldecapecod11]

In the 1965 NFL Draft, the Giants had the first pick overall.
The Giants passed on Joe Namath, Gale Sayers, and Dick Butkus and drafted Tucker Frederickson.

[paulksandiego]

Saban » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:17 pm
"What!! The shabby way the Browns treated your Giants? What about the way Gifford, Webster, Huff, Robustelli and company treated the Browns during their salad years from 1956-63. They practically got Paul Brown fired.
I know that you are an old time fan like me, but most here are too young to remember what a really bitter rivalry that the Giants and Browns had.
BTW, Speaking of the three studs on the offensive line, how about Rosey Brown, Ray Wietecha, and Jack Stroud for the three studs on those Giants teams. Joining them in 1959 was Darrell Dess and Greg Larson in 1961 with Bill Austin through 1957."----
coachtj » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:40 pm
"....during the '55 season when nyg was struggling; st. vince discussed with the offensive line coach a new approach to blocking(zone). during the remainder of '55 through '58 the nyg ground attack improved(especially considering what was gained in '53). stroud when healthy was a rock solid performer, and wietecha was among the best centers in the league. no matter who played rt. tackle(usually yelvington), or left guard(austin and others)....they performed at a high level. based upon his age(he was one of the youngest players in the league)and improvement mr. rosey brown became an elite left tackle; and in my opinion one of the best ever at his position. check the sacks allowed numbers by nyg during this era; these guys could run block, yet they were by far the best in the league at pass blocking."

- - - - -

You both took the words from the tips of my fingers. This keyboard is practically making strokes of its own.
Yes! Yes! Yes! and Yes!
There was not a better trio in Football than Brown, Stroud and Wietecha in their day. It was an era when players
went to camp to get in shape after spending the off-season at their other jobs. They worked and did not have
the time to do drugs and beat up women and run dog shows.
Brown had a gym mat tied to a tree in his back yard. That was his blocking dummy - all year long.
Only a few know that much of the Giants' success earlier was Mel Hein's ACCURACY snapping the ball.
Well, Wietecha was selected in that mold. He could consistently hit the crossbar from the 10 at least nine
out of 10 times and did it often for the benefit of the press.
Toss into the mix he played 10 seasons and never missed a game. ('Course not too many did in those days...)
Stroud was. as tj states, rock solid. Charlie did not have golden wheels and yet, again per tj, there were very few sacks.
Whoops! Almost forgot... if you look at some old film and find a few rare stills, you'll see #79 and #66 on the goal line D.
Yup! That's Brown and Stroud.
Boo Hoo! I wish you guys would have commented on the exclusion of Marion M from the "Numbers Retired"
in Cuyahoga country...
One more kudo for Ray Wietecha... he snapped, among others, for Ben Agajanian and, if I recall, the placement
of the ball had to be slightly different and Ray got it there with no problem.

Jack Stroud was named at least to second team All-Pro every year from 1956 through 1962 except for 1958 when he missed a good part of the year because of injury. In 1963, center Ray Wietecha retired, so right tackle Greg Larson was moved to center in an effort to replace Wietecha. This left an opening at right tackle, so the Giants moved Stroud, who was 35 at the time, to right tackle from his usual position of right guard. The move probably cost Stroud any chance to make any All-Pro teams because he had some stiff competition from guys like Forrest Gregg, Dick Schafrath, Charley Bradshaw, and teammate Rosey Brown. Besides that, switching from guard to tackle is not always easy because the positions are really quite a bit different.

Anyway, Stroud apparently did well at his new position. The Giants easily led the NFL in points scored and QB Y.A. Tittle had his greatest year. Evidently, Tittle was well protected by his offensive line. Stroud was really a team player, making the move from guard to tackle had little benefit for him, but it helped the Giants. Bookie Bolin took the right guard spot in 1963.

According to the All-Pro records, Stroud made AP and UPI All-NFL 2nd team in 1962 at OT, 1st Team All-NFL on the Football News and Detroit News teams, and All-East Team by The Sporting News all at OT. Is it possible that Stroud moved to RT in 1962?

[oldecapecod11]

Maybe... but?

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new ... oster/1962

1962 New York Giants Roster
# Player Pos
Erich Barnes DB - 1935-07-04 Purdue
Reed Bohovich OG - 1941-11-18 Lehigh
Bookie Bolin OG - 1940-06-17 Mississippi
Rosey Brown OT - 1932-10-20 Morgan State
Ken Byers OG - 1940-04-06 Cincinnati
Don Chandler K - 1934-09-05 Florida
Jim Collier TE - 1939-05-08 Arkansas
Johnny Counts RB - 1939-02-28 Illinois
Darnell Dess OG - 1935-07-11 North Carolina State
Paul Dudley RB - 1939-01-16 Arkansas
Bob Gaiters RB - 1938-02-26 New Mexico State
Frank Gifford WR - 1930-08-16 Southern California
Rosey Grier DT - 1932-07-14 Penn State
Ralph Guglielmi QB - 1933-06-26 Notre Dame
Sam Horner RB - 1938-03-04 Virginia Military Institute
Sam Huff LB - 1934-10-04 West Virginia
Charlie Janerette DT - 1938-12-01 Penn State
Jim Katcavage DE - 1934-10-28 Dayton
Phil King RB - 1936-06-22 Vanderbilt
Greg Larson C - 1939-11-15 Minnesota
Dick Lasse LB - 1935-11-13 Syracuse
Dick Lynch DB - 1936-04-29 Notre Dame
Dick Modzelewski DT - 1931-02-16 Maryland
Joe Morrison RB - 1937-08-21 Cincinnati
Jimmy Patton DB - 1933-09-29 Mississippi
Dick Pesonen DB - 1938-06-10 Minnesota-Duluth
Andy Robustelli DE - 1925-12-06 Arnold
Tom Scott DE - 1930-09-03 Virginia
Del Shofner OE - 1934-12-11 Baylor
Bob Simms LB - 1938-09-03 Rutgers
Jack Stroud OG - 1928-01-29 Tennessee
Aaron Thomas TE - 1937-11-07 Oregon State
Y.A. Tittle QB - 1926-10-24 Louisiana State
Mickey Walker OG - 1939-10-14 Michigan State
Joe Walton OE - 1935-12-15 Pittsburgh
Allan Webb DB - 1933-01-22 Arnold
Alex Webster RB - 1931-04-19 North Carolina State
Ray Wietecha C - 1928-11-04 Northwestern
Bill Winter LB - 1940-01-28 St. Olaf