Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I wouldn't choose anyone who played after the Hall of Fame was founded, because they've all had their chance with the selection committee. Many of the players from before the 1960s, though, never really had that chance.

There are nine finalists whose careers ended before 1960: Dillon, Dilweg, Emerson, Isbell, Lewellen, Slater, Speedie, Sprinkle, and Wistert.

I'd go with those guys.

rhickok1109 wrote:I wouldn't choose anyone who played after the Hall of Fame was founded, because they've all had their chance with the selection committee. Many of the players from before the 1960s, though, never really had that chance.

There are nine finalists whose careers ended before 1960: Dillon, Dilweg, Emerson, Isbell, Lewellen, Slater, Speedie, Sprinkle, and Wistert.

I'd go with those guys.

I like the logic of this though I do think Marta's is out for non Football reasons and the FB HOF has no behavior clauses otherwise would LT even be in. Also seemed more isolated than a Pete Rose issue.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Looks like the list is out. I saw it on another board: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... s-revealed

COACHES (8 FINALISTS) - Coaches who last coached more than five seasons ago

Don Coryell - 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Bill Cowher - 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tom Flores - 1979-1987 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-94 Seattle Seahawks

Mike Holmgren - 1992-98 Green Bay Packers, 1999-2008 Seattle Seahawks

Jimmy Johnson - 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins

Buddy Parker - 1949 Chicago Cardinals, 1951-56 Detroit Lions, 1957-1964 Pittsburgh Steelers

Dan Reeves - 1981-1992 Denver Broncos, 1993-96 New York Giants, 1997-2003 Atlanta Falcons

Dick Vermeil - 1976-1982 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 St. Louis Rams, 2001-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Since nobody is talking about the Coaches, I thought I would look at them:

For the Coaches, I think it comes down to four people - Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, Don Coryell, and Mike Holmgren. I would be very surprised if any of the other Coaches were chosen.

Parker led the Lions to two NFL titles in 52 and 53, lost in 54, but walked out on the team in training camp in 1957 and the team won the NFL title without him. Was it a case of the team rallied to show the world they didn't need Parker, or was it the change from Parker to George Wilson that was needed to put them over the top once again? Sometimes, a team has all the talent, but it takes a coaching change (2002 Bucs) to take the team to the next level. To his credit, Parker went to Pittsburgh and became the first Steelers coach to leave with a winning record, and they almost won the 1962 Eastern Division.

Reeves has the long career going for him, the playing career in Dallas, the HB option TD pass in the Ice Bowl, being a longtime assistant under Landry, and of course the four Super Bowl losses. On the other hand, he was twice AP Coach of the Year, and was an assistant on three Cowboy teams who went to the Super Bowl, meaning he was involved in eight Super Bowl games as a coach or player or assistant.

Coryell is an innovator, first as a coach at San Diego State for over 10 years , then he turned around a Cardinals franchise that hadn't seen the postseason in over 25 years, went to San Diego and turned around a Chargers franchise that hadn't seen the postseason in 15 years. Dan Fouts would not be a Hall of Famer without Don Coryell showing up in San Diego, nor would Charlie Joiner, and Coryell in turn influenced Joe Gibbs, who was the OC in San Diego in the late 70's, which led to the Redskins of the early 80's.

Holmgren also touched a lot of important NFL lives - from being the Quarterbacks coach at BYU to the 49ers QB's Coach/OC to the Packers job, he worked with Jim McMahon, Steve Young, Joe Montana and helped get Brett Favre's career off the ground. More than that, he (along with Favre and Reggie White) restored the Packers to being a marquee franchise once again, which they hadn't been since Lombardi retired, The system Holmgren set up in Green Bay remains to this day in that the Packers have seemingly not lost a step since he left, and it's almost like he hasn't left Green Bay, the organization has been seemingly running on auto-pilot and continue to remain competitive just about every year. Then, of course, there is his coaching tree, which includes Jon Gruden, Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh to name a few.

At the end of the day, Parker and Reeves did a lot to contribute to the game, but the two most overly qualified guys on the list are Coryell and Holmgren.

Rupert, good observations, and agreed.

Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be surprised if Tom Flores gets one of these slots. I see him as the least qualified of the candidates, but it may not matter.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Looks like the list is out. I saw it on another board: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... s-revealed

COACHES (8 FINALISTS) - Coaches who last coached more than five seasons ago

Don Coryell - 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Bill Cowher - 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tom Flores - 1979-1987 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-94 Seattle Seahawks

Mike Holmgren - 1992-98 Green Bay Packers, 1999-2008 Seattle Seahawks

Jimmy Johnson - 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins

Buddy Parker - 1949 Chicago Cardinals, 1951-56 Detroit Lions, 1957-1964 Pittsburgh Steelers

Dan Reeves - 1981-1992 Denver Broncos, 1993-96 New York Giants, 1997-2003 Atlanta Falcons

Dick Vermeil - 1976-1982 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 St. Louis Rams, 2001-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Since nobody is talking about the Coaches, I thought I would look at them:

For the Coaches, I think it comes down to four people - Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, Don Coryell, and Mike Holmgren. I would be very surprised if any of the other Coaches were chosen.

Parker led the Lions to two NFL titles in 52 and 53, lost in 54, but walked out on the team in training camp in 1957 and the team won the NFL title without him. Was it a case of the team rallied to show the world they didn't need Parker, or was it the change from Parker to George Wilson that was needed to put them over the top once again? Sometimes, a team has all the talent, but it takes a coaching change (2002 Bucs) to take the team to the next level. To his credit, Parker went to Pittsburgh and became the first Steelers coach to leave with a winning record, and they almost won the 1962 Eastern Division.

Reeves has the long career going for him, the playing career in Dallas, the HB option TD pass in the Ice Bowl, being a longtime assistant under Landry, and of course the four Super Bowl losses. On the other hand, he was twice AP Coach of the Year, and was an assistant on three Cowboy teams who went to the Super Bowl, meaning he was involved in eight Super Bowl games as a coach or player or assistant.

Coryell is an innovator, first as a coach at San Diego State for over 10 years , then he turned around a Cardinals franchise that hadn't seen the postseason in over 25 years, went to San Diego and turned around a Chargers franchise that hadn't seen the postseason in 15 years. Dan Fouts would not be a Hall of Famer without Don Coryell showing up in San Diego, nor would Charlie Joiner, and Coryell in turn influenced Joe Gibbs, who was the OC in San Diego in the late 70's, which led to the Redskins of the early 80's.

Holmgren also touched a lot of important NFL lives - from being the Quarterbacks coach at BYU to the 49ers QB's Coach/OC to the Packers job, he worked with Jim McMahon, Steve Young, Joe Montana and helped get Brett Favre's career off the ground. More than that, he (along with Favre and Reggie White) restored the Packers to being a marquee franchise once again, which they hadn't been since Lombardi retired, The system Holmgren set up in Green Bay remains to this day in that the Packers have seemingly not lost a step since he left, and it's almost like he hasn't left Green Bay, the organization has been seemingly running on auto-pilot and continue to remain competitive just about every year. Then, of course, there is his coaching tree, which includes Jon Gruden, Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh to name a few.

At the end of the day, Parker and Reeves did a lot to contribute to the game, but the two most overly qualified guys on the list are Coryell and Holmgren.

It was 1963 when the Buddy Parker-coached Steelers would gave won the Eastern Division had they beaten the Giants in the last game of the season. The Steelers had the odd record of 7-3-3 going in while the Giants were 10-3. The Giants won 33-17. I saw the game on TV.

rhickok1109 wrote:I wouldn't choose anyone who played after the Hall of Fame was founded, because they've all had their chance with the selection committee. Many of the players from before the 1960s, though, never really had that chance.

There are nine finalists whose careers ended before 1960: Dillon, Dilweg, Emerson, Isbell, Lewellen, Slater, Speedie, Sprinkle, and Wistert.

I'd go with those guys.

I'd sign up for this, though I don't see any way they would elect all four Packers. Does anyone know what the next step is? Do they pare the field down first or does everybody on this list go in the room for the final vote?

Andy Piascik wrote: Does anyone know what the next step is? Do they pare the field down first or does everybody on this list go in the room for the final vote?

i think the meet next summer to pare it down and that is it---whoever is not cut makes it.

Just checked the HOF website and it says the final vote is in January, with the results announced a few days later.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... s-revealed

Andy Piascik wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:I wouldn't choose anyone who played after the Hall of Fame was founded, because they've all had their chance with the selection committee. Many of the players from before the 1960s, though, never really had that chance.

There are nine finalists whose careers ended before 1960: Dillon, Dilweg, Emerson, Isbell, Lewellen, Slater, Speedie, Sprinkle, and Wistert.

I'd go with those guys.

I'd sign up for this, though I don't see any way they would elect all four Packers. Does anyone know what the next step is? Do they pare the field down first or does everybody on this list go in the room for the final vote?

Can't imagine them going with such a high proportion of old guys. I agree with the reasoning that there should be more of them because the later guys got their chance, but my guess is 5 and 5. Also, Randy Gradishar invalidates the "only old guys" case.

Andy Piascik wrote:Just checked the HOF website and it says the final vote is in January, with the results announced a few days later.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... s-revealed

I sure had that one wrong...guess the enshrinment is in the summer.... oh well. Blew that one