Re: ’64/’65 Bills
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:01 pm
This is the last I am going to speak on this subject, so let me be clear before I begin. I am not saying Jack Kemp would have been a top echelon quarterback in the NFL. I am merely suggesting that some people are being overly dismissive of Kemp’s (and other AFL players’) talents and accomplishments.
I would like to compare Kemp’s resume against Bill Nelsen and Bill Kilmer, just for shits and giggles. Since another poster brought playoff appearances into the discussion, let’s take a more fulsome look at each player’s accomplishments …
Prior to going to the Cleveland Browns, Bill Nelsen’s W-L record was 5-15, with 27 TDs and 30 Ints. When he was traded to Cleveland, the Browns’s record over the three previous seasons was 9-5, 9-5, 11-3, so he was going to a proven winner. Once in Cleveland, he went to the postseason four times, with an overall playoff record of 2-3. He appeared in one Pro Bowl game, was never an All-Pro. Never won a championship. (Where have you gone, Frank Ryan?)
Prior to going to the Washington Redskins, Bill Kilmer’s W-L record was 11-29, with 49 TDs and 71 Ints. After being traded to Washington, a team that was clearly on the rise with George Allen, he went to the postseason five times. His overall postseason record was 2-5. He played in one Pro Bowl, was never an All Pro. Never won a championship.
Prior to going to the Buffalo Bills, Jack Kemp’s W-L record was 22-6, with 37 TDs and 49 Ints. When he was traded to the Bills, the team had never appeared in the playoffs before. Within one year, he took them to their first of four straight postseason appearances. His overall postseason record was 2-4. He played in seven All Star games, was All-AFL two times, and league MVP once. He won two league championships.
Kemp was a winner before coming to Buffalo, and continued to win for four straight years after arriving. Nelsen and Kilmer were not until going to teams that were already contenders (Browns) or on their way (Redskins). The only area where Kilmer and Nelsen crush Kemp is in TD-Int ratio, where Kemp was woeful. But still, Nelsen and Kilmer both had bad ratios before going to winning teams.
I am done. This has been quite fun actually. But again, everyone is free to believe what they wish. Ciao!
I would like to compare Kemp’s resume against Bill Nelsen and Bill Kilmer, just for shits and giggles. Since another poster brought playoff appearances into the discussion, let’s take a more fulsome look at each player’s accomplishments …
Prior to going to the Cleveland Browns, Bill Nelsen’s W-L record was 5-15, with 27 TDs and 30 Ints. When he was traded to Cleveland, the Browns’s record over the three previous seasons was 9-5, 9-5, 11-3, so he was going to a proven winner. Once in Cleveland, he went to the postseason four times, with an overall playoff record of 2-3. He appeared in one Pro Bowl game, was never an All-Pro. Never won a championship. (Where have you gone, Frank Ryan?)
Prior to going to the Washington Redskins, Bill Kilmer’s W-L record was 11-29, with 49 TDs and 71 Ints. After being traded to Washington, a team that was clearly on the rise with George Allen, he went to the postseason five times. His overall postseason record was 2-5. He played in one Pro Bowl, was never an All Pro. Never won a championship.
Prior to going to the Buffalo Bills, Jack Kemp’s W-L record was 22-6, with 37 TDs and 49 Ints. When he was traded to the Bills, the team had never appeared in the playoffs before. Within one year, he took them to their first of four straight postseason appearances. His overall postseason record was 2-4. He played in seven All Star games, was All-AFL two times, and league MVP once. He won two league championships.
Kemp was a winner before coming to Buffalo, and continued to win for four straight years after arriving. Nelsen and Kilmer were not until going to teams that were already contenders (Browns) or on their way (Redskins). The only area where Kilmer and Nelsen crush Kemp is in TD-Int ratio, where Kemp was woeful. But still, Nelsen and Kilmer both had bad ratios before going to winning teams.
I am done. This has been quite fun actually. But again, everyone is free to believe what they wish. Ciao!