Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

James wrote:Otto Graham to me is the best QB EVER! Ten years of playing professional football and going to the Title/Championship game all ten years and going 7-3 in said games. Better than both Manning & Brady in my opinion. The closest we have seen and probably ever will see was Kelly quarterbacking the Bills to four straight Super Bowls.

The 1972 Dolphins are NOT the only undefeated team, the 1948 Browns were also undefeated.

Don Hutson IS the GREATEST WR to ever play the game.

Mel Hein is the only Center to win league MVP -1938. Would love to see something like that again, but will never happen today.

I like your first couple of opinions.

Otto's Browns teams may have lost 3 championship games, but they avenged those losses in Graham's last couple of years; 56 to 10 over Detroit in 1954 and 38 to 14 in 1955 against the Rams. Perfect ending to a near perfect career.

CSKreager wrote:Here are mine:

Troy Aikman was highly overrated as a QB- I think the 1992 Cowboys would have still gone 13-3 and won the Super Bowl if Steve Beurelein started every game that season

Do they win those three championships if Tony Romo was the QB?

Not sure how much this has to do with football but it seems like an inevitability. Analytics are ruining the fun of watching sports.

James wrote:Otto Graham to me is the best QB EVER! Ten years of playing professional football and going to the Title/Championship game all ten years and going 7-3 in said games. Better than both Manning & Brady in my opinion. The closest we have seen and probably ever will see was Kelly quarterbacking the Bills to four straight Super Bowls.

Don Hutson IS the GREATEST WR to ever play the game.

I agree with you about Hutson, but not Graham. He played under a coach that was way ahead of his time. If Elway was their QB, they would have won more NFL titles than they did.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

James wrote:Otto Graham to me is the best QB EVER! Ten years of playing professional football and going to the Title/Championship game all ten years and going 7-3 in said games. Better than both Manning & Brady in my opinion. The closest we have seen and probably ever will see was Kelly quarterbacking the Bills to four straight Super Bowls.

Don Hutson IS the GREATEST WR to ever play the game.

I agree with you about Hutson, but not Graham. He played under a coach that was way ahead of his time. If Elway was their QB, they would have won more NFL titles than they did.

Before Super Bowl XXXII, Elway was the quintessential quarterback who "couldn't win the big one"--i.e. the new Fran Tarkenton. Given the fact that the Broncos were 13-14 point underdogs, that was supposed to be reinforced against Green Bay. Amazing what two Super Bowl wins can do to a reputation.

Before Super Bowl XXXII, Elway was the quintessential quarterback who "couldn't win the big one"--i.e. the new Fran Tarkenton. Given the fact that the Broncos were 13-14 point underdogs, that was supposed to be reinforced against Green Bay. Amazing what two Super Bowl wins can do to a reputation.

In the 80's, Elway had the inflexible Dan Reeves as coach, and he didn't have as many HOF teammates as Graham did. They wouldn't have been in those SB's without John.

WRs should be able to wear jersey numbers 1 to 9 as well.

An outdoor cold weather Super Bowl is required.

Post-season statistics should count towards individual/team totals.

Pro Bowl selecions have become farcical since fan voting was introduced.

The Reserve/Injured list rules need to be overhauled - short term (4 weeks), medium (8 weeks) and season ending.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

Before Super Bowl XXXII, Elway was the quintessential quarterback who "couldn't win the big one"--i.e. the new Fran Tarkenton. Given the fact that the Broncos were 13-14 point underdogs, that was supposed to be reinforced against Green Bay. Amazing what two Super Bowl wins can do to a reputation.

In the 80's, Elway had the inflexible Dan Reeves as coach, and he didn't have as many HOF teammates as Graham did. They wouldn't have been in those SB's without John.

Otto Graham, like Joe Montana, Bart Starr, and Tom Brady, stepped into situations that were ideally suited for them. They had great coaches, great systems, and great players around them. I think any of them, provided they had gotten a real chance (no sure thing, especially with Brady) could have succeeded almost anywhere, but not at the same historic levels they did with their actual teams. Graham was a great talent. He was a fine athlete, and had a great arm. He threw a very soft ball to catch. But if Graham doesn't land on the team Paul Brown had been building for over a year, there's no way that he goes to 10 title games in his career. On the other hand, there's not a single other QB who would take Paul Brown to 10 title games. Baugh and Luckman would have aged out. Brown would never have tolerated Bobby Layne's off field activities, and perceived lack of discipline. He would have butted heads with Norm Van Brocklin, and shipped him off very quickly. Maybe Bob Waterfield could have done it, especially in the early years, with Brown's hand-picked talent, but I don't think Waterfield could win his division 10 straight times.

Then there are QB's so gifted, that success is almost a given, no matter where they end up. The two best examples I can think of are two men who were holding the Lombardi trophy last February.

John Elway was one of the most amazing physical specimens to ever play QB. And unlike Jeff George, his attitude, work ethic, and leadership skills were rarely questioned. Elway's athletic gifts allowed him to take three above-average Bronco teams to the Super Bowl. Ultimately, each team was exposed as being less than great.
Peyton Manning had passable physical skills, but his work ethic and dedication, his utter obsession with the game, meant he was as likely to succeed as Elway. He definitely benefitted by Bill Polian's masterful building of a team, but the man went to the Super Bowl four times with four coaches! Peyton would have had a successful career almost anywhere. (He may have found a tough going in the deficient organizations in Arizona and Cincinnati in the late 90's and early 2000's.)

Rings are grossly overvalued by the HOF committee. Aikman belongs, but not as a first-ballot guy. As for Swann... let's just say he strikes me more as a 19th ballot guy than a 14th ballot guy....

The NFL should go back to early Saturday start times for the Wild Card and divisional playoffs.