Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

A record of 20-27 through almost three full seasons was deemed good enough for Bowles to get a contract extension.

The "willing loser" game plan was displayed when the Jets were in Denver a few weeks back.

JWL wrote:A record of 20-27 through almost three full seasons was deemed good enough for Bowles to get a contract extension.

The "willing loser" game plan was displayed when the Jets were in Denver a few weeks back.

They really were blown off the line and had no fight in them against a free falling Denver squad coached by somebody who I suspect won't have a long coaching career himself (Vance Joseph).

10-23 in their last 33 games starting with the Bills debacle to finish the 2015 season. The Jets are consistently outschemed and out-prepared. Bowles is supposed to be a secondary specialist but he has totally failed in this regard. Wilkerson quit on the team, Revis quit a year earlier. Discipline issues remain. Clock management issues. Poor situational coaching all around.

Sad to see they brought him back. They'll give him a better team to work with in 2018 but I'm certain they'll underachieve.

sheajets wrote:

JWL wrote:A record of 20-27 through almost three full seasons was deemed good enough for Bowles to get a contract extension.

The "willing loser" game plan was displayed when the Jets were in Denver a few weeks back.

They really were blown off the line and had no fight in them against a free falling Denver squad coached by somebody who I suspect won't have a long coaching career himself (Vance Joseph).

10-23 in their last 33 games starting with the Bills debacle to finish the 2015 season. The Jets are consistently outschemed and out-prepared. Bowles is supposed to be a secondary specialist but he has totally failed in this regard. Wilkerson quit on the team, Revis quit a year earlier. Discipline issues remain. Clock management issues. Poor situational coaching all around.

Sad to see they brought him back. They'll give him a better team to work with in 2018 but I'm certain they'll underachieve.

Well, you've taken the extreme negative view. I don't agree with some of your thoughts. I will explain later in the week or maybe tonight if I get the time.

As for right now, of the 48 he has coached there are eight alarming games that make me question Bowles. That means there are another 40 that are okay to me. In those 40 games, the Jets were 20-20. Can I find things to nitpick in the 20 losses? Sure. I also can find things to nitpick in the games in which the Patriots lost with Bill Belichick as the head coach.

I will discuss the eight alarming games and respond to all of your comments as soon as possible.

sheajets wrote: They really were blown off the line and had no fight in them against a free falling Denver squad coached by somebody who I suspect won't have a long coaching career himself (Vance Joseph).

I don't think the opposing coach has anything to do with it.

That certainly was one of the eight alarming games and probably is the top one. The Jets were trailing 10-0 late in the 2nd quarter with about a minute and a half left. The Jets spent no timeouts and let the Broncos run the clock down before making a field goal. The Jets then received a kickoff with 32 seconds left if I recall correctly. They decided to kneel on the ball and head into halftime with all three timeouts not used. The second half consisted of the Jets "willing loser" game plan (read: a lot of punting and vanilla run plays to kill time). Bowles and company wanted the game over as soon as possible. Bowles coached almost as if the whole thing was a teaching moment and that he has a 10-year contract. "Okay, fellows, I can see you don't really want to play today. Then I'm not gonna coach. We'll end this as easy and as soon as possible."

A normal coach would have called the timeout before the Denver field goal try and would have gotten the ball back (after the kickoff or missed field goal) with over a minute remaining in the half and would have tried to score and enter halftime with some momentum and a good feeling.


The eight alarming games in my book-
11-1-15- Jets 20 at Raiders 34- didn't show up
1-3-16- Jets 17 at Bills 22- gave a dead team a reason to play
10-9-16- Jets 13 at Steelers 31- willing loser game
10-17-16- Jets 3 at Cardinals 28- didn't show up
12-5-16- Colts 41 at Jets 10- didn't show up
9-10-17- Jets 12 at Bills 21- willing loser game
11-12-17- Jets 10 at Buccaneers 15- didn't show up
12-10-17- Jets 0 at Broncos 23- didn't show up and willing loser game

As mentioned the other day, the Jets went 20-20 in the other 40 games Bowles coached. Included were blown 4th quarter leads this season vs the Patriots, Falcons, and Dolphins. That happens. There were things that bothered me in those games and in the 17 other losses but those things happen. Bill Belichick, Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, and Rich Kotite lost games too.

In a sport where you play 16 games, I don't understand how you can come out flat or "not show up." I truly do not understand the mentality but I know it exists. I go to my place of work everyday and give the same effort. I never get spoken to about effort. I've never been fired from a job. I've never come close to being fired. I've never gotten a warning or anything less than a positive performance review. I do not personally know what entails not giving a good effort. Yet I know it happens to other people. There were Jets players who stated the team came out flat in the playoff game against Pittsburgh in January 2011. How is that possible? I don't know how. I know it happens, though. Of the 48 games Bowles has coached, there are five games in which I don't think his team came ready to play. It is sort of a subjective thing. I mean, how exactly does one prove it? I don't know but it's my feeling that they were flat or didn't show up or however you want to phrase it.

In the season finale of 2015, the Jets were facing a Buffalo team that had nothing to play for other than to spoil the Jets season. I didn't understand the play calling in that game. The Jets didn't come out in aggressive fashion and step on Buffalo's throat and they let their former head coach help finish their season. That all said, they were inches away from a freaky Ryan Fitzpatrick to Kenbrell Thompkins connection that would have won the game in the final minute.

There were punts in the Steelers game of 2016 and the first Buffalo game of 2017 that were bizarre. One can view the game books to see the exact situations. I don't recall every detail off the top of my head, but the punts were called for in spots where 99% of head coaches would not have punted. In that Steelers game, the Jets probably had a 5% to win and by punting Bowles made it a 1% chance. In the Bills game, there was probably about a 10% chance of winning and Bowles punted and made it a 4% chance of winning. It was probably something like that. I know there are some sites out there that do the whole "probability of winning at this point" thing.

sheajets wrote:
10-23 in their last 33 games starting with the Bills debacle to finish the 2015 season.

Considering how 2016 went, the Jets could have canned Bowles after the season. Many Jets fans would have been fine with it. The offseason was terrible, though, and that had little to nothing to do with Bowles. It was an annoying offseason spent mostly on rumors about signing Muhammad Wilkerson to a long-term deal and whether or not Ryan Fitzpatrick would come back. On and on and on it went. Then both of those players stunk during the season. Then Brandon Marshall and Sheldon Richardson had problems with one another in the locker room. The team had all sorts of garbage games. Some of them I mentioned in the earlier post. There were a couple blowouts that didn't make my "alarming games" list because I think due to injuries and QB issues, the Jets were simply thoroughly outclassed. The season was a complete dumpster fire. Maybe not a clown show like the 2017 Giants but pretty gosh darn awful nonetheless.

Possibly due to Woody Johnson leaving to go to England, the Jets decided to bring back Bowles for 2017. Everybody who knows the league knew the Jets were not a very talented team. I didn't see any media member or publication pick the Jets to win more than four games. I predicted them to be 4-12. The Jets exceeded basically everyone's expectations to finish 5-11. They were 5-7 in games which Josh McCown completed. There were an 0-4 mess in games completed by Bryce Petty. They played competent football during the McCown portion of the season. Not one Jet received a single vote for the All-Pro team and this was appropriate. There is not one Jet who deserved to be anywhere near the All-Pro team. So how did they play 5-7 football which could have been 8-4 football with a few breaks during the McCown portion of the season? Might it be that Bowles might actually be alright? I think it may be possible. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say the team is devoid of talent compared to other teams and then crush the head coach when the team does not win enough.

Bowles was the head coach when the team had comeback wins in December pressure situations in 2015 vs the Giants, Cowboys, and Patriots. Does this not count for anything because the season finale was bad?

sheajets wrote:
The Jets are consistently outschemed and out-prepared.

This is an opinion and is difficult to prove one way or the other.

sheajets wrote:
Bowles is supposed to be a secondary specialist but he has totally failed in this regard.

Buster Skrine is a penalty machine but he is not a bad player. He's not going to the Pro Bowl this year, either, mind you. Morris Claiborne, for the most part, was alright. The rookie safeties were good and showed a lot of promise. Terrence Brooks was the AFC defensive player of the week one time. I am not sure how Bowles has totally failed as his coaching relates to the secondary.

sheajets wrote:
Wilkerson quit on the team, Revis quit a year earlier. Discipline issues remain.

Wilkerson has proven to be a loser. He got his money and took his foot off the pedal and turned on the cruise control. I don't know why Bowles has to take the blame for this.

Did you see Revis play against the Jets and Titans this season? In each game he displayed matador defense. If you are to rip Bowles for this, then Andy Reid deserves blame too.

Most, if not all, teams have to deal with discipline issues. Even Belichick deals with it. Remember he told Wes Welker to cease with the foot comments about Rex Ryan? He didn't last much longer in New England. Chandler Jones had issues. He didn't last much longer in New England. Marshall and Richardson didn't make it to the next season after they each caused problems in 2016. IK Enemkpali was released shortly after his broke his teammate's jaw in the locker room. Wilkerson was essentially suspended for 3.25 games this season. He was made inactive-coach's decision three times and sat the bench for the first quarter during an earlier game.

Are you maybe blaming Bowles for these issues even popping up in the first place? If so, I would find that incredibly unfair. I pin this crap on the players themselves. These are grown men. They are professionals and went to college. (Would they be college men if not for football? That's another discussion). Most companies in all walks of life deal with stuff like this. I start work at 8:30 as do some of my coworkers. Most, including my supervisor, start at 9:00. If I pop one of my coworkers in the face as soon as I get to work on Tuesday morning would my supervisor deserve some blame? Is she responsible for all my actions?

sheajets wrote:
Clock management issues.

Agreed. See my comments on the willing loser games. Two things, though. Most fans get on their team's head coach for clock management issues and the Jets were almost certainly going to lose the "willing loser" games anyway. Heck, they are called willing loser games for a reason.

sheajets wrote: Poor situational coaching all around.

I don't know. I feel this is sort of like the out-prepared comment you made where I responded that this is an opinion and difficult to prove.

sheajets wrote: Sad to see they brought him back. They'll give him a better team to work with in 2018 but I'm certain they'll underachieve.

Well, umm, probably. Jets fan luck is like Al Bundy luck. Why would a Jets fan expect anything nice to happen? Until something changes, nothing changes. I get it. I have written as much plenty of times on this forum. I'm really just not sure Bowles is the problem. I'd say he is not the problem.

There are some concerns with his coaching. #1 for me is I don't know why the team seems to not show up two times on average per season. That, to me, is the biggest issue I have with Bowles. I also worry about the next time the Jets are trailing by two scores in the 4th quarter and are facing a 4th down. I fear the weird punt decision. If they stay within one score, I feel the correct decision will be made. If the team is ready to play and doesn't trail by nine or more points in the 4th quarter, things should be okay.

Prior to the extension, a few weeks back on another forum, I wrote that unless the Jets think there is a great head coaching candidate available that Bowles should not be fired. I don't know that there is a great head coaching candidate available right now. I think bringing back Bowles was the correct call. I could be singing a different tune this time next year. Well, we'll just wait and see. The offseason should be about improving the lines and the cornerback situation, bringing back McCown, drafting a quarterback such as Baker Mayfield, maybe drafting a running back like Derrius Guice in round 2, hoping Quincy Enunwa has recovered, and getting some good depth on the roster.

I send out e-mails to friends once in a while. Here is an excerpt from one written the day after the Jets season concluded. I figured I might as well drop it here. (Several sentences written about Damien Harris have been removed since he is apparently returning to Alabama. I was hoping he'd declare for the draft and the Jets would take him.)

Non-Bowles and QB thoughts on the Jets- In early December, I said that Juston Burris has been the most disappointing Jet. He had a couple more bad plays on Sunday including an egregious holding penalty on 3rd down that gave the Patriots a first down which led to a back-breaking touchdown. It turns out Muhammad Wilkerson was the most disappointing Jet of 2017. He underwhelmed on the field and was a distraction off the field to the point where he got essentially suspended for 3.25 games. He was kept on the bench for a quarter of one game and was made inactive for the final three games. He will not be back with the Jets. He will be an offseason cut. Wilkerson went from being a major force to a guy who lost the will after he got a huge contract. Even at the height of his Jets career, I thought he was lazy. I remember going on a Jets forum and arguing with other Jets fans that if Wilkerson actually gave a damn on every play, he could be a perennial All-Pro. I could see it on the TV broadcast that he would just not finish plays sometimes. I never said/wrote the same thing about Sheldon Richardon (he was jettisoned for off the field issues) or Damon Harrison (I wasn't happy when the Jets did not re-sign him) or Leonard Williams. So, I don't know, I'm not a scout and I'm certainly not in the practice facility or the locker room. Maybe the Jets had some concerns. Maybe that is why the contract was structured in such a way that the Jets would be able to get out of it in early 2018.

Bilal Powell has always seemed underutilized. Maybe he has been utilized correctly, though. He always seems to get nicked up enough to not string together multiple big "fantasy football" type games. He will be entering his 8th season in 2018. Matt Forte is as good as gone. Elijah McGuire is a young runner. He looks like a career backup to me. The 2018 draft is loaded with good runners.

The Jets offensive line is not great. They could stand to upgrade all over the line. They will have the cap room to do so through free agency.

Journeyman David Bass was good in spots as a pass rusher but they have nobody else who can consistently rush the passer. Kony Ealy simply doesn't have the motor. He went from almost being the Super Bowl MVP in February 2016 to being dropped by the Patriots in the summer of 2017 and being invisible at times with the 2017 Jets.

Jordan Jenkins is a solid outside linebacker. The other outside linebacker, Josh Martin, is adequate at best. At ILB, Demario Davis is a good run stopper but he has always been a detriment in coverage. The other ILB, Darron Lee, improved greatly in coverage from his rookie season but he gets taken out of run plays too often when offensive linemen get to him. I, like Ray Lucas on the Jets postgame show, wonder if Lee would be a more effective player on the outside. Maybe through free agency and the draft, the Jets could restructure the defense and play Lee in Martin's spot.

Buster Skrine and Morris Claiborne had their share of issues at cornerback. I am not opposed to either returning to the team. Claiborne is a free agent. I'm not sure what Skrine's contractual status is right now. Skrine gets interviewed after games on the Jets postgame show every week or almost every week. I sort of like him although he said "knick knack" yesterday evening when he meant "ticky tack". Sometimes when you hear a guy talk as opposed to him being some faceless guy in a helmet, you like him more. Others times it is the complete opposite.

The rookie safeties, Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye, were solid if not spectacular. Both flashed enough that one can envision future All-NFL selections.

Leonard Williams and Steve McClendon were solid on the defensive line. The guy who took over for Wilkerson, Xavier Cooper, looked good. Mike Pennel was okay too. I was pissed when he basically ended the Carolina game by roughing Cam Newton on a play that would have given the Jets the ball back with a chance to win. Pennel also has a history of substance abuse suspensions [meaning he is a risk]. I would move on from Pennel. The Jets need to upgrade the defensive line situation in free agency or the draft.

The anti-Bowles comments made by sheajets on January 10th are the type of comments made by many other anti-Bowles Jets fans. That's fine. We are all entitled to our opinions.

Maybe the most unfair knock on Bowles is when some blame him for the team being undisciplined. Maybe we can look at penalties and blame Bowles for that. Okay, I could buy that a little. Bowles does not play, though. He's not jumping offsides or holding opponents or hitting quarterbacks late.

The reason I am bumping this thread is that Robby Anderson is in trouble again. Most non-Jets fans probably missed this because he was not suspended by the league but Anderson had an issue with a police officer last offseason. Yesterday he was arrested again. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/19/robby ... es-florida

I knew, I just knew that I would be able to view a Jets message board and within one minute find at least one person who blames Bowles for Anderson's arrest.



Yep.



Sure enough.







It's Bowles' fault.

Todd Bowles could be the next great head coach, I don't know, whatever. But what is the Jets organization doing to make it happen? What are they doing to better equip him to be successful? Not much. Thus, I'm not surprised the Jets have not been successful and if they don't improve, this will turn into any other afterthought, which Bowles is the scapegoat, and is fired.

sluggermatt15 wrote:Todd Bowles could be the next great head coach, I don't know, whatever. But what is the Jets organization doing to make it happen? What are they doing to better equip him to be successful? Not much. Thus, I'm not surprised the Jets have not been successful and if they don't improve, this will turn into any other afterthought, which Bowles is the scapegoat, and is fired.

In 2015, the Jets had to sign free agents so there were a bunch of mercenaries on the team. The team had a decent season but missed the playoffs by one game.
That team fell apart in 2016 and was gutted in the offseason.
2017 was a rebuild and the team was not expected to be any good.
The Jets have plenty of cap room to sign several free agents who will be looking for their second NFL contract.
If Bowles doesn't get the job done in 2018, he probably will be fired.

JWL wrote:

sluggermatt15 wrote:Todd Bowles could be the next great head coach, I don't know, whatever. But what is the Jets organization doing to make it happen? What are they doing to better equip him to be successful? Not much. Thus, I'm not surprised the Jets have not been successful and if they don't improve, this will turn into any other afterthought, which Bowles is the scapegoat, and is fired.

In 2015, the Jets had to sign free agents so there were a bunch of mercenaries on the team. The team had a decent season but missed the playoffs by one game.
That team fell apart in 2016 and was gutted in the offseason.
2017 was a rebuild and the team was not expected to be any good.
The Jets have plenty of cap room to sign several free agents who will be looking for their second NFL contract.
If Bowles doesn't get the job done in 2018, he probably will be fired.

Sure, signing FAs will help, but IMO the team needs a few to several franchise players. Who is the answer at QB? Hackenberg and Petty are very young and unproven. Could they be the stars? Matt Forte is a decent RB, but the defense is a mess. I think there is much work to do, a few big name FAs will help, but to me it's more of talent panning out for NY to turn into a playoff team. What do you think?