Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Reaser wrote:

bachslunch wrote:I have Darrell Green as 4/7/90s (86-87 NEA, 90 PFWkly, 91 consensus) ...

Ah, you're using the other major selectors now for your 'profiles'? Good to see it's not "AP Only" anymore ... or at least this is the first time I've noticed the change.

Reaser, thanks for asking. I've actually been on board with the idea that AP isn't the only game in town re all-pro teams for a good while now. Because I got flack from several folks at other websites, I used to show Darrell Green's profile as 4(1 AP)/7/90s, but I don't even do that these days. I've also challenged people with AP-only thinking at these other sites (not much need to do so here) for a good while.

The only team I don't give equal weight to is Sporting News up to ca. 1980 since it's analogous to a lumped-together group of all-conference teams. Until I see a good reason to discount any others, I'm giving the rest equal weight.

bachslunch wrote:Reaser, thanks for asking ...

Cool, makes more sense to me to list all major selectors, and I hadn't noticed that you had started doing it like that.

bachslunch wrote:

Reaser wrote:

bachslunch wrote:I have Darrell Green as 4/7/90s (86-87 NEA, 90 PFWkly, 91 consensus) ...

Ah, you're using the other major selectors now for your 'profiles'? Good to see it's not "AP Only" anymore ... or at least this is the first time I've noticed the change.

Reaser, thanks for asking. I've actually been on board with the idea that AP isn't the only game in town re all-pro teams for a good while now. Because I got flack from several folks at other websites, I used to show Darrell Green's profile as 4(1 AP)/7/90s, but I don't even do that these days. I've also challenged people with AP-only thinking at these other sites (not much need to do so here) for a good while.

The only team I don't give equal weight to is Sporting News up to ca. 1980 since it's analogous to a lumped-together group of all-conference teams. Until I see a good reason to discount any others, I'm giving the rest equal weight.

I think you are right on pre-1980 Sporting News. It was All-Confernce, close to the 1970-79 UPI and to the Pro Bowls.

To me there is:
Consensus All-Pro = 10
First-team All-Pro = 9.3
Second-Team All-Pro = 9.0
First-Team All-Conference = 8 (I count Pro Bowl as All-conference = 8)
Second-team All-Conference = 7
Honorable mention All-pro or All-Conference = 6.5
Player with good stats, something that separates from average = 6
Average starter = 5
Backup = 3
on roster, barely played = 1

I use for for a perennial all-star who was hurt mid-season, and a 2 for that kind of guy who missed about 3/4 of season.

Just the way I organize it . . .

JohnTurney wrote:First-Team All-Conference = 8 (I count Pro Bowl as All-conference = 8)
Second-team All-Conference = 7

Then shouldn't Pro Bowl STARTER get an 8, and other Pro Bowl choices get a 7? Otherwise, it seems to me that the Pro Bowl backups are getting too much credit.

Bob Gill wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:First-Team All-Conference = 8 (I count Pro Bowl as All-conference = 8)
Second-team All-Conference = 7

Then shouldn't Pro Bowl STARTER get an 8, and other Pro Bowl choices get a 7? Otherwise, it seems to me that the Pro Bowl backups are getting too much credit.

yeah, but prior to 1975 no one knows who was voted starter . . . so, it decided to group them together rationalizing that back in the day it was coaches and players voting, and no fans.

I find it amusing that some people are more interested in the process and the politics surrounding it than the merits of the players.

Being a Steeler-fan...I'll 'take' Bettis getting in while, at the same time, fully respecting all arguments from you all as to why he shouldn't have gotten in or at least having to wait much longer. I guess the he being #5 all-time in yardage and 'going out a Champ' and 'in his hometown', mind you, did the trick in the end and why should I complain?

As for TD...if his career would have simply been just a little bit longer, he would have gotten the nod and gotten it years ago. Only Gayle Sayers (w/out even a playoff appearance, mind you) can play so little yet still get in.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Being a Steeler-fan...I'll 'take' Bettis getting in while, at the same time, fully respecting all arguments from you all as to why he shouldn't have gotten in or at least having to wait much longer. I guess the he being #5 all-time in yardage and 'going out a Champ' and 'in his hometown', mind you, did the trick in the end and why should I complain?

As for TD...if his career would have simply been just a little bit longer, he would have gotten the nod and gotten it years ago. Only Gayle Sayers (w/out even a playoff appearance, mind you) can play so little yet still get in.

People who weren't around then don't appreciate the impression Sayers made. He was being called the greatest runner of all time after his first two seasons.

Sayers was a transcendent talent and force. He had what is still IMO the greatest rookie season ever.

Could TD be to Sayers what...Shawn Alexander, perhaps, is to TD?