Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

This reminds me of the final scene of what I feel may, very well, be the Greatest one-season TV series of All-Time. The kind of one-season triumph that makes you so very sad that it only lasted one season (Season 2 would have been so Awesome). What 'Happy Days' or 'Sopranos' would have been seen as had it somehow wasn't picked up for a second season. The series I'm talking of is...'Freaks and Geeks'! PLEASE see if you haven't already! Eighteen episodes in which each one is better - more progressive - than the one prior! This especially goes for if you're a Detroit-fan!!

Anyways the character, Lindsay, is being sent-off by her family, via-bus trip, to a summer field trip that involves academics. Her younger brother's two friends suddenly show up to wish her goodbyes. One of them, Neal, had a crush on her the entire series thus far. He bought her chocolates. The other, Bill, didn't have such a crush on her at all so didn't get her anything; just wishing her a goodbye. Yet, Lindasy kisses BOTH goodbye before getting onboard the bus. As phrased, it didn't cost Bill a cent!

Man, I've said it numerous times already in that the '57 Browns were like the '91 Lakers. Yes, Browns still had Paul Brown whilst LA still had Magic. No more Kareem (nor Pat Riley) and no more Otto though. Yes, '57 and '91 respectively SO different, and distant-enough, than the years prior.

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 6:42 pm And though rules-were-rules, everyone played by them, getting swept by Giants doesn't at all "taint" their '50 title. If NYG deserved it, then they simply complete the 'hat-trick' (heck, win at least one of the two that Clev DID win in the first place)! Just like the '67 Rams should have still went into wintry Wisconsin and did it again a couple weeks later (I'll ALWAYS respect the Pack more than the Rams in '67 because of that; if every playoff game has to be at home in order to be able to win a title...yeah)!

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 6:42 pm But Browns, despite 11-1 and beating Rams in LA by 15, still didn't get it done when they had to in the very end. And those '51 Rams, to me, were good overall at 8-4, Classic offense, but nothing special on defense thus making them the team that more-stronger and balanced Cleveland should have beaten handily

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:11 pm I know this is a football forum, but that was a great show. Too bad there wasn't a season 2.

Citizen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 6:08 am

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:11 pm I know this is a football forum, but that was a great show. Too bad there wasn't a season 2.

Indeed. I was a high school senior in a small midwestern city during the school year that show takes place in, and I'm telling you, they nailed it. The characters, the clothes, the music, the teachers, all of it. There was recently a documentary about F&G, and surprisingly, most of the cast said they were thrilled with the show's legacy and that it was for the best that it ended the way it did.

Bryan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:38 pm That comparison makes no sense. The Rams didn't play in the same division as GB, beat the Packers twice, then 'tie' for the division and still have to play another game against GB to win the division.

Saban1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:44 pm

Saban wrote:I believe that the Cleveland Browns were the greatest team in football during the All-America Conference years (1946-49). That is just my opinion, but I think that I can prove it. Here goes:

1. Cleveland Browns 35 Philadelphia Eagles 10. For the opening game of the 1950 season, the Cleveland Browns played the Philadelphia Eagles in Philadelphia. This was billed as a showdown between the 4 time AAFC champion (1946-49) Cleveland Browns against the 2 time NFL champion (1948-49) Philadelphia Eagles (the first unofficial Super Bowl if you will).

Cleveland won easily as the Eagles had trouble covering Cleveland's receivers Lavelli, Speedie, and Dub Jones. People were expecting the Eagles to show that the Browns were merely the best of a bunch of minor league teams.

Of course, players like Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Mac Speedie, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski were not yet known as the great players that they were, but just some of the better players of a bush league.

That was only one game, but it is evidence that the Browns were as great or greater than the NFL's best.

2.Six straight Conference titles in the NFL (1950-55). This is still a record which will probably never be broken, but also shows that Cleveland was great in any league, The fact that Cleveland could be the dominant team after joining the NFL in 1950 is further evidence that Cleveland was great before in the AAFC. I believe that it is ludicrous to think that the Browns just suddenly became much better in 1950 than they were during the late 1940's.

3. Defense. Starting in 1946, Cleveland led whatever league they played in by least points allowed an incredible 10 out of 12 seasons. They were second in 1950 (by 3 points) and in 1952. What else needs to be said except that the Browns had a lot of great players on their defenses as well as their offenses.

4. Receivers. Dante Lavelli, Mac Speedie, and Dub Jones. After Cleveland's 35 to 10 opening game win over the Eagles, a Philadelphia defensive back said that covering the Browns receivers was like trying to cover three Don Hutsons...impossible.

5. Offensive line. Cleveland's offensive lines were always good all the way through the 40's, 50's, and 60's, and I believe that they were the best throughout the Graham era. Two Hall of Fame players (tackle Lou Groza and Center Frank Gatski) and tackle Lou Rymkus, who many think should be in the HOF. Their guards in the AAFC were usually Ed Ulinski and Lin Houston and were considered good players with Bob Gaudio as a reliable back up at guard. Marion Motley would often help out with the pass blocking which I believe made Cleveland the best at pass blocking in all of football.

6. Otto Graham. Graham was considered by many to be the best quarterback in pro football.

7. Marion Motley. I think a shoo in as best running back during his prime years which included all his years in the AAFC. Also a great blocker as has been mentioned many times on this forum.

8. Paul Brown. Just seemed to have the Midas touch when it came to football. Everything he touched seemed to turn to gold. Great success in high school football, college football, and even military football before starting the Cleveland Browns in 1946. Otto Graham said that Brown was light years ahead of the rest. Basically invented the playbook, and carried film study to greater levels among other things. He was very well organized as were his teams.

9. Kicking Game. Horace Gillom was the best punter of his time and Lou Groza was the best place kicker.

10. Hall of Fame players. Otto Graham, Dante Lavelli, Marion Motley, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski make 6 Cleveland players in the HOF during their AAFC days, and those players continued to prove themselves worthy of the honor after joining the NFL in 1950. 6 HOF players is more than any other team during that period and the fact that Mac Speedie isn't included is a travesty in my opinion.

Having more HOF players in itself is not proof that the Browns were the greatest team, but it does add to the evidence.

I am sure that there is more, but let's see what we have here. The Cleveland Browns during their years in the All-America Conference had the best coach (Paul Brown), the best quarterback (Otto Graham), the best receivers (Dante Lavelli, Mac Speedie, and Dub Jones). the best fullback (Marion Motley), the best defense, the best offensive line, and the best kicking game.

So, as they say in a court of law, by the preponderance of the evidence, the Cleveland Browns were the greatest team in football during the time of the All-America Conference (1946-49).

On this forum, I think that most would agree with that premise because the people here are mostly very knowledgeable football fans, but among casual fans, there could be a lot of people that don't agree.

I should have mentioned that all 6 HOF players for Cleveland (Otto Graham, Dante Lavelli, Marion Motley, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski) played all 4 years (1946-49) in the AAFC for the Browns.

There were 9 other Cleveland players that also played all 4 years in the All-America Conference for the Browns, and there is plenty of evidence to show that they ranged from very good to great players. They were:

(1) Mac Speedie - Should be in the HOF. Led AAFC in receptions 3 times (1947, 1948, and 1949) and also led the league in total receptions over the entire 4 year span. Also led the NFL in receptions in 1952.

Missed 1952 championship game due to an injury and played in Canada after that. Might have made a difference in 1952 and 1953 championship game losses to Detroit.

(2) Lou Rymkus - Was one of the best tackles of his era. Was used as a model for pass blocking for younger players by Paul Brown, who called Rymkus the best pass blocker ever. Played a lot on defense as well during Cleveland's first couple of years (1946-47).

Was among 15 players as finalists for Hall of Fame in 1988, but did not make final cut.

(3) Lou Saban - Best linebacker in AAFC during those years and maybe all of football. Even though Saban played almost strictly on defense, was made All-AAFC at center as a special consideration in 1948 and 1949 because they did not name all-league or all-pro teams for defensive positions before 1950.

Retired to start a coaching career in 1950, and I am sure was sorely missed by the Cleveland Browns after they entered the NFL in 1950.

(4) Edgar "Special Delivery" Jones - Second highest rusher behind only Marion Motley for Cleveland during AAFC years. Averaged 7 yards per carry in 1946 and 6.4 yards per carry in 1947. Paul Brown called him his greatest clutch runner.

Retired, then decided to play in Canada in 1950 where he made an all-star team.

(5) Ed Ulinski - Was named 2nd team all-league at guard in 1946 and 1948. Like Saban, Ulinski retired to go into coaching after the 1949 season. With another guard, Bob Gaudio, also retiring, it was necessary for Cleveland to buy Abe Gibron from the Buffalo Bills in 1950 to go along with Weldon Humble and Lin Houston as Cleveland's guards in 1950.

(6) Cliff Lewis - Played safety and backed up Otto Graham at quarterback. Led AAFC in interceptions over the 4 year period of the league's existence with 24 interceptions.

(7) Lin Houston - Played right guard from 1946 through 1953 for the Browns. Was named 2nd team all-pro in the NFL by the United Press in 1951.

(8) John Yonakor - Cleveland's right defensive end from 1946-49). Paul Brown called Yonakor the Browns best defensive end behind only Len Ford and Paul Wiggin during Brown's 17 years with Cleveland.

Was sold to the New York Yanks in 1950 due to the fact that Len Ford had been picked up in the AAFC dispersal draft in 1950, and there was a 33 player limit in 1950. Ironically, Ford was passed by in that draft by every NFL team and by most of them twice.

Yonakor also played in Canada in 1951 and for the Washington Redskins in 1952.

(9) George Young - Played 8 years for Cleveland from 1946 through 1953, and was the starting left defensive end for the Browns for most of that time. I think that a player had to be pretty good to play 8 years for Cleveland during that era.

George Young later became an umpire in the American Football League for almost the entire 10 years before the AFL officially was merged with the NFL in 1970 (played each other in regular season games). Young was umpire for the first Super Bowl game between Green Bay and Kansas City and also the first AFL championship game in 1960.

Citizen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:36 pm I don't know if or where it's streaming, but here it is: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8178670/