Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:20 am**

To each his own ... even though on a researcher's site, youre discounting the fact that Lott has more TDs, more total and solo tackles, more forced fumbles*, more fumble recoveries, more interceptions, more championships and more games played than Taylor, who has more sacks, All-Pro selections, headlines and cocaine purchases ...

*Disputed ... I cant understand why stats-researchers have a hard time generating forced fumble numbers for Taylor, who had that awesome chop swing strip on QBs? Maybe many of the fumbles were recovered by the offenses, but hopefully Nick Webster or others have accurate strip sack numbers? I could probably find out on Elias but wont pay for it.

I also cant discount players like Rod and Charles Woodson, Ed Reed and pass rushers Donald, Page, Greene, Eller and Youngblood amongst the greatest ever, defensive players.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 10:12 am**

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:20 am more championships and more games played than Taylor.

I’m sure Lott is the sole reason for this. No other differences at all btw the teams they played for. Just Lott and Taylor.

Lott also has amazing receiving numbers that have been hidden in a secret plot against him. Qb rating was also outstanding but alas Lott won’t get his due credit.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 11:13 am**

I always felt Simms had a HOF case and should at least be in the HOVG ...

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:12 pm**

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 11:13 am I always felt Simms had a HOF case and should at least be in the HOVG ...

If you stream that recent Joe Montana documentary, Cool seamlessly in a single breath places Simms & Marino on the same level.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 2:15 pm**

Halas Hall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:48 pm The Packers selecting Rich Campbell from Cal over Ronnie Lott set them back many years.

That didn't help, surely. Also, they passed on Montana a few years earlier despite the protestations of a scout.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 3:48 pm**

Its still interesting that Wade Wilson, who was drafted in the 8th round, was still picked 52 spots ahead of a Brock Purdy, which shows how much the draft has changed with more teams. Both guys have had good careers, Though Wilson would sure like to redo the years 1987-90, when the team had their chance at a SB.
I cant remember if he got hurt or lost his job in 1990, but he never got starting momentum after that. His last extended play was with the Saints in 1993.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 5:02 pm**

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:12 pm
Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 11:13 am I always felt Simms had a HOF case and should at least be in the HOVG ...
If you stream that recent Joe Montana documentary, Cool seamlessly in a single breath places Simms & Marino on the same level.

Marino & Simms together? Too many painkillers maybe? I’m a Giants fan and have always defended Simms, but he couldn’t shine Mariano’s shoes.

Over 32 games Marino played at Giants Stadium, breaking down some stats on a 16 game season basis:
58% completion
8975/2= 4488 yds/16 games
73TDs/40 Ints= 36 TDs/20 Ints per 16 games

Simms in his dreams never attained that.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 6:11 pm**

Raptorfan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 5:02 pm
74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:12 pm
Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 11:13 am I always felt Simms had a HOF case and should at least be in the HOVG ...
If you stream that recent Joe Montana documentary, Cool seamlessly in a single breath places Simms & Marino on the same level.
Marino & Simms together? Too many painkillers maybe? I’m a Giants fan and have always defended Simms, but he couldn’t shine Mariano’s shoes.

Over 32 games Marino played at Giants Stadium, breaking down some stats on a 16 game season basis:
58% completion
8975/2= 4488 yds/16 games
73TDs/40 Ints= 36 TDs/20 Ints per 16 games

Simms in his dreams never attained that.

Yes, I lean toward Marino. Is it because what you and "everyone" else would say (or afraid the 'sacrilege-police' coming to take me away), or is it because I think Dan - after all, a true 1st Ballot HOFer (almost-Rushmore QB) - is better anyway? A little of both, yes more-so the latter. I will never actually stand on a soapbox and ever try to argue this to death.

However - and I've said this numerous times, and I'll say so yet again - as exciting for this Steeler-fan to think of Dan being picked in '83, I always would have been just as fine with Phil Simms being Bradshaw's air apparent! Draft him in '79 instead of Malone the following year, groom him up for a few years, and then - under...Tom Moore's guidance, mind you (yes, Parcells a great, perhaps better than great, QB-whisperer himself) - and he leads Chuck Noll to an extra playoff berth/division title or two. Tough QB! He would have fit in so well in the 'Burgh! Fans would have loved him as well!

Playing for Cowher in his later years, under Erhardt, not a bad thought. But likely just a year or two considering his age by then; sure-enough not making it to '94/'95.

Yeah, as I said, I won't argue he and Dan being "equal", but if someone puts them in the same boat (after all, he has two Rings; and not Dilfer-style either, he WAS a SBMVP), I won't scoff either - especially if Joe Montana, of all people, is saying it. I think he would know a thing, or two. Stats are legit, and again I do lean toward Dan, but they aren't always everything. Simms had the intangibles.

EDIT - my mistake. I forgot Simms was a 1st Rd draft pick. Either way, if we "somehow" got him to take over for Terry...

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 8:33 pm**

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 6:11 pm
Raptorfan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 5:02 pm
74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:12 pm

If you stream that recent Joe Montana documentary, Cool seamlessly in a single breath places Simms & Marino on the same level.
Marino & Simms together? Too many painkillers maybe? I’m a Giants fan and have always defended Simms, but he couldn’t shine Mariano’s shoes.

Over 32 games Marino played at Giants Stadium, breaking down some stats on a 16 game season basis:
58% completion
8975/2= 4488 yds/16 games
73TDs/40 Ints= 36 TDs/20 Ints per 16 games

Simms in his dreams never attained that.
Yes, I lean toward Marino. Is it because what you and "everyone" else would say (or afraid the 'sacrilege-police' coming to take me away), or is it because I think Dan - after all, a true 1st Ballot HOFer (almost-Rushmore QB) - is better anyway? A little of both, yes more-so the latter. I will never actually stand on a soapbox and ever try to argue this to death.

However - and I've said this numerous times, and I'll say so yet again - as exciting for this Steeler-fan to think of Dan being picked in '83, I always would have been just as fine with Phil Simms being Bradshaw's air apparent! Draft him in '79 instead of Malone the following year, groom him up for a few years, and then - under...Tom Moore's guidance, mind you (yes, Parcells a great, perhaps better than great, QB-whisperer himself) - and he leads Chuck Noll to an extra playoff berth/division title or two. Tough QB! He would have fit in so well in the 'Burgh! Fans would have loved him as well!

Playing for Cowher in his later years, under Erhardt, not a bad thought. But likely just a year or two considering his age by then; sure-enough not making it to '94/'95.

Yeah, as I said, I won't argue he and Dan being "equal", but if someone puts them in the same boat (after all, he has two Rings; and not Dilfer-style either, he WAS a SBMVP), I won't scoff either - especially if Joe Montana, of all people, is saying it. I think he would know a thing, or two. Stats are legit, and again I do lean toward Dan, but they aren't always everything. Simms had the intangibles.

EDIT - my mistake. I forgot Simms was a 1st Rd draft pick. Either way, if we "somehow" got him to take over for Terry...

I’m confident Marino’s career stands on its own without any peer pressure necessary. His throwing talent alone was breath taking.
There’s a Giants game I think from 1979 where Brookshier(?) compares Simms with Bradshaw. I don’t know if Simms had as strong an arm but what you wrote brought back that memory.

I was about to post on the forum how Noll giveth and taketh away when he said pass on Marino because hey let’s rebuild through defense like it was 1969! Then I learned that Bradshaw hid the extent of his elbow injury to protect his job and that contributed to not taking Marino.
Yeah, Simms would have been good there I guess.

All due respect to Cool, but um, maybe because he had many important games played against the Giants, but um I can’t agree. Simms had more intangibles than Marino? Maybe. I heard Marino could be a whiner, finger pointer. True? But,to me, Marino was the 80s Mr SuperQb.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2025 9:02 pm**

Raptorfan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 5:02 pm
74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 12:12 pm
Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 11:13 am I always felt Simms had a HOF case and should at least be in the HOVG ...
If you stream that recent Joe Montana documentary, Cool seamlessly in a single breath places Simms & Marino on the same level.
Marino & Simms together? Too many painkillers maybe? I’m a Giants fan and have always defended Simms, but he couldn’t shine Mariano’s shoes.

Over 32 games Marino played at Giants Stadium, breaking down some stats on a 16 game season basis:
58% completion
8975/2= 4488 yds/16 games
73TDs/40 Ints= 36 TDs/20 Ints per 16 games

Simms in his dreams never attained that.

Simms is not Marino, but I could definitely see him being Hall of Very Good in the future.

I considered nominating him myself a couple years back but I didn’t because I had a feeling he would occur to someone else given he was a quarterback.

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