What is your personal "GOAT progression"?

[Brian wolf]

In case you didnt know ... Shula and Morrall took the Colts to the 1968/69 SB, losing to the Jets ...
Morrall was the NFL's MVP in his first season with the team.

[JameisLoseston]

This thread is at risk of getting derailed by "I'm one of 3 people on earth with this opinion" opinions, so let's reorient. I openly invited debate with the OP, but there seems to be too much feeling and not enough reason going on at the moment, never a good recipe.

New question: we have Guy Chamberlin as a firm GOAT HC of the NFL's earliest years, but I notably started the player lists with Friedman, who came in several years along. Are there any convincing candidates from before that? I think it's fair to include what's known of pre-NFL pro football, in addition to the 1920-26 years, for this exercise. Guys like Grange, Nevers, Dilweg, and Lewellen also emerged mid-decade, so they're out. I have a site with what is known of the stats from that time, and no one popped out at me like that from the first five years or so. But including pre-NFL, Jim Thorpe seems a clear contender.

[Brian wolf]

According to TanksAndSpartans, it was probably Norb Sacksteder ...

Everybody has opinions on the best players or coaches ever but we all have subjective criteria. Just because Rice or Brady or Belichick dominated, doesnt mean they were better or worse than Warfield, Montana or Shula. Each era, rules and players were different. I personally dont believe Brady would have stayed healthy against the pass rushers of the eighties or early nineties and imagine Rice playing in the 60s when receivers could get clotheslined or hit before the ball was in the air ? Players and coaches can excel or dominate only in their period of time if they can stay healthy. Many could not and cannot enter that type of debate ...

[7DnBrnc53]

According to TanksAndSpartans, it was probably Norb Sacksteder ...

Everybody has opinions on the best players or coaches ever but we all have subjective criteria. Just because Rice or Brady or Belichick dominated, doesnt mean they were better or worse than Warfield, Montana or Shula. Each era, rules and players were different. I personally dont believe Brady would have stayed healthy against the pass rushers of the eighties or early nineties and imagine Rice playing in the 60s when receivers could get clotheslined or hit before the ball was in the air ? Players and coaches can excel or dominate only in their period of time if they can stay healthy. Many could not and cannot enter that type of debate ...

Exactly. The media plays favorites, and since Montana, the QB has started to get way too much credit if their team (key word: TEAM) wins four or more SB's (I don't think anyone was saying that Terry Bradshaw was the GOAT QB in 1980). The media put Rice on a pedestal as well, despite the fact that past greats (like Warfield) never got to play in a cheesy short passing system running slants, benefiting from illegal pick plays, and padding their stats. Warfield was in a running offense. If he was in the Wuss Coast offense, he would have just as many catches, if not more, than the sainted Rice (although, I don't have Warfield as the GOAT WR. Megatron is, followed by Warfield).

[racepug]

In case you didnt know ... Shula and Morrall took the Colts to the 1968/69 SB, losing to the Jets ...
Morrall was the NFL's MVP in his first season with the team.

Uh huh. It's clear you're a Shula fan. I'm not. So we're operating from different corners. So be it.

[racepug]

In case you didnt know ... Shula and Morrall took the Colts to the 1968/69 SB, losing to the Jets ...

Another one of those big games Shula lost that I referred to previously.

Morrall was the NFL's MVP in his first season with the team.

[Brian wolf]

Its no big deal racepug ... I prefer Weeb Ewbank to Shula but I wasnt aware if you knew Shula's history with the Colts. Though he got his revenge on Cleveland winning 34-0 for the NFL Championship, his legacy in Baltimore pretty much ended with that defeat to the Jets, though for two seasons in 67 and 68 his team went 24-2-2, with both losses to the Rams and Jets ending their season ...

[JameisLoseston]

I personally dont believe Brady would have stayed healthy against the pass rushers of the eighties or early nineties

Yeah, I'm sure he'd be long retired by age 44 if he was playing in a less friendly era to QB longevity. But there's still no telling he wouldn't have held up better than, say, Marino. That's why you can't base debates on what-ifs; it is what it is and you have to work with what you have. On the same token, there's probably 25 different teams that could have drafted Brady and he'd never have seen the field, and I don't see anyone using that to discount him in arguments.

[RichardBak]

Its no big deal racepug ... I prefer Weeb Ewbank to Shula but I wasnt aware if you knew Shula's history with the Colts. Though he got his revenge on Cleveland winning 34-0 for the NFL Championship, his legacy in Baltimore pretty much ended with that defeat to the Jets, though for two seasons in 67 and 68 his team went 24-2-2, with both losses to the Rams and Jets ending their season ...

Actually, the Colts were 26-3-2 (incl. postseason) in '67-68. Add a loss to the Browns a few weeks into the '68 season to the season-ending losses to LA and NYJ. IBeing a Colts fan back then, I anguished over every loss, as few as they were.

[Brian wolf]

Youre right Richard, I was thinkin about the regular season records, forgetting the Browns won in 68'. Those Shula Colt years had to be frustrating for the fans to come so close. I dont believe the Colts took the Jets too lightly, they just had a letdown after ten straight wins ...