Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

For me, with his clutch SB performances, big moments, blocking and statistics, Max McGee deserves the HOVG but so does Dale ...

Brian wolf wrote:Lombardi didnt like Howton's blocking, Brown his union leadership, what was Landry upset about ?

I may be confusing Howton with Buddy Dial. Landry didn't like the free-lancing on routes.

Dial, like former Steelers WR Ray Matthews before on the team, had no problem telling Landry what he thought ...

JameisLoseston wrote:Like I said in the OP, I'm pretty sure it's because the early HOF voters saw Hirsch and Fears ahead of him on the "Rams receivers" pecking order, and didn't want to elect too many guys from one position group of a team that wasn't exactly dynastic. Once the senior committee came about, he had just fallen through the cracks. Maybe a bad reason, but there you go. I might argue that Benton's career was better than Fears' in era-adjusted terms, but recency bias would have been operative at the time.

Bill Simmons compared Alex English to Adrian Dantley...they had similar stats and played in the same era...and the conclusion was that you'd see 100 more players that would be like Alex English, but you'd never see another player like Adrian Dantley. I think Jim Benton is like the Adrian Dantley on NFL receivers. He was completely unathletic. He was small for an end, he had no speed, yet he could get open and catch passes. It's interesting how much his numbers improved with Bob Waterfield as his QB. There is really no reason that Wayne Milner is in Canton while Benton is not. Benton was the superior player. I don't know if Fears/Hirsch had an effect on Benton's HOF chances; I think it's more because Benton's talent was easily overlooked because of it's nuance.

Benton is penalized for playing with single wing teams as well. As soon as Waterfield came aboard, they won a championship. The last time a rookie QB has done so and Benton's single game yardage record stood for what, 44 years ?

Andy's '50s All-Decade, which is as good or better than any I've seen, had Howton first-team:

Bryan wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:There is really no reason that Wayne Milner is in Canton while Benton is not.

I asked somebody (a WFT fan) I met at this year's PFRA convention about that and he told me that he thinks the reason Wayne Millner was voted into the P.F.H.o.F. was because of his performance in a championship game.

racepug wrote:

Bryan wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:There is really no reason that Wayne Milner is in Canton while Benton is not.

I asked somebody (a WFT fan) I met at this year's PFRA convention about that and he told me that he thinks the reason Wayne Millner was voted into the P.F.H.o.F. was because of his performance in a championship game.

This is the main reason but there's more to it. Upon looking closer at honors Milner had among the most all pro honorable mentions of his era(6 to Benton's 5) even if none of them resulted in a first or second team nod. Of E's drafted in the 30s only Hutson, Hewitt and Joe Carter had more. His teammate Charley Malone who had slightly better stats had less honors than Milner. The modern equivilant would be a receiver who made a lot of pro bowls and played great in the playoffs and that resume likely makes it even though the stats would look totally different. Milners stats aren't the best of his era but they are comparable to better receivers like Smith who never played in the post season. Of course Benton like Hutson changed what elite receiver stats looked like entirely. He should be a lock while Milner is a borderline case.

I agree there is no argument for Milner over Benton. Benton played pretty well in the playoffs too of course. The difference there is for his main team this play did not result in a championship and can see WFT fans of their era caring about Milner more than Rams fans of their era caring about Benton(not that this should matter it shouldn't but it's one of the only explantions for Milner being in the HOF and Benton not being in). If only 3 receivers drafted in the 30s are in the Hall Benton should be one of the first 2 if not 3. But the isolated HOF case for Milner looks less and less insane the more you look at it. Him on the all decade team still makes more sense than your Ferrante's and Waltsons and that's why he's in and they will(rightfully)never even be considered. That 4th all decade spot(which would not have went to Benton given most of his career was in the 40s) was an at large spot that could have went to several receivers.

racepug wrote:I asked somebody (a WFT fan) I met at this year's PFRA convention about that and he told me that he thinks the reason Wayne Millner was voted into the P.F.H.o.F. was because of his performance in a championship game.

I've heard it was because he went to Notre Dame.

Bryan wrote:I've heard it was because he went to Notre Dame.

Without checking on this, I believe Millner caught a pass for the winning touchdown in a famous come-from-behind win for Notre Dame -- maybe against Ohio State. Of course that shouldn't have any effect on whether he makes the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but it might have stuck in some voters' minds.

Also, as somebody else mentioned, I'd say his performance in the 1937 NFL championship game figured in his election. Still doesn't make it right, though.