Class of 2020 Centennial Hall of Fame Finalists

[Ken Crippen]

What would you say is each nominee's chances of making the cut? I think the only locks are one of Lewellen or Dilweg (the other has maybe 50% chance) and probably Gradishar. Shell and Karras also seem like great bets, since they were nominated for the all-time team.

Depends on who you listen to. Some place All-Decade teams higher than anything and they want to focus on getting in All-Decade players. Others look at All-Pros. Regardless, I think that Slater has a great chance. Wistert would stand a good chance. As John Turney mentioned (I think it was John) that Dilweg and Lewellen may cancel each other out. Karras seems to have a good shot.

[Andy Piascik]

By my count, 13 of the finalists made an all-decade team: Carmichael, Covert, Craig, Dilweg, Emerson, Harris, Isbell, Karras, Nobis, Pearson, Speedie, Sprinkle and Wistert. The 7 who did not are Branch, Dillon, Gradishar, Hill, Lewellen, Shell and Slater.

[JohnTurney]

By my count, 13 of the finalists made an all-decade team: Carmichael, Covert, Craig, Dilweg, Emerson, Harris, Isbell, Karras, Nobis, Pearson, Speedie, Sprinkle and Wistert. The 7 who did not are Branch, Dillon, Gradishar, Hill, Lewellen, Shell and Slater.

There was clearly an emphasis on All-Decades. Sometimes I wish they'd look closer. Nobis, for example, was he really worthy of 1960s All-Decade? Isbell is also curious, as somome mentioned. Also, some of those are Second-team All-Decade picks and got very few votes. They are All-Decade but there are levels to it, First-team, Second-team and Joh nAnderson.

Also, If a guy starts his career in 1945---or 1946 and plays 10 years---hard to be All-Decade.

Also, Winson Hill was Second-team on he AFL All-Time team which is a de facto All-Decade team, so really it's 14 and 6.

[Andy Piascik]

Agree completely on those points about the decade teams. You would think people who spend as much time paying attention to football as these selectors do would be able to see there have been plenty of mistakes made, plus there's the whole Jim Ray Smith thing that you mention.

You started it on your website with mid decade teams, John, but I had an idea that it would be a good PFRA project to select all-decade teams for as many ten year increments as we had time for. Maybe start at the end of WW2 with 1945-54 and go one step at a time: 1946-55, 1947-56, 1948-57, etc. Then if a guy shows up on seven different teams and someone else at the same position shows up on four, we'd have a clearer idea of who was really better. And since the HOF seems to pay some attention to us, maybe it might make a difference with a few guys they've thus far overlooked. It would be a heck of a lot of work, though.

[rewing84]

i think either howley or baughan would have been better would you agree john

[JohnTurney]

Agree completely on those points about the decade teams. You would think people who spend as much time paying attention to football as these selectors do would be able to see there have been plenty of mistakes made, plus there's the whole Jim Ray Smith thing that you mention.

You started it on your website with mid decade teams, John, but I had an idea that it would be a good PFRA project to select all-decade teams for as many ten year increments as we had time for. Maybe start at the end of WW2 with 1945-54 and go one step at a time: 1946-55, 1947-56, 1948-57, etc. Then if a guy shows up on seven different teams and someone else at the same position shows up on four, we'd have a clearer idea of who was really better. And since the HOF seems to pay some attention to us, maybe it might make a difference with a few guys they've thus far overlooked. It would be a heck of a lot of work, though.

I think it's a good idea---

[JohnTurney]

i think either howley or baughan would have been better would you agree john

Tes, either one for the 1960s. In 1994 the NFL did a combined All- AFL/NFL 1960s team and it was excellent.

But 3 MLBers and then Robinson and Morris---didn't seem like a great team

I think Howley, Baughan, even Wayne Walker > Nobis and Morris for the 1960s.

Nobis would be a competitor for a mythical 1965-75 All-Decade team

[rewing84]

excellent points john

[Andy Piascik]

I'd be interested in your thoughts, John, but I think Howley was more deserving of one of the OLB spots for the 1960s team than Robinson. Robinson to me is a classic example of a guy who got an all decade honor he really didn't deserve and then that all-decade selection went a long way in the case that was made to get him into the HOF. When you add in Howley's unanimous all-pro season in 1970 and also getting some mention in 1971, his HOF credentials are definitely superior to Robinson's.

[JohnTurney]

I'd be interested in your thoughts, John, but I think Howley was more deserving of one of the OLB spots for the 1960s team than Robinson. Robinson to me is a classic example of a guy who got an all decade honor he really didn't deserve and then that all-decade selection went a long way in the case that was made to get him into the HOF. When you add in Howley's unanimous all-pro season in 1970 and also getting some mention in 1971, his HOF credentials are definitely superior to Robinson's.

If it were my pick I'd say Howley > Robinson for the 1960s. But I think Robinson was deserving of the NFL All-Decade

My NFL 1960s would be

MLB = Butkus, Nitchke
OLB = Robinson, Baughan
OLB = Howley, Fortunato

but that 2nd team OLBer spot could also go to Hazeltine, Walker if you go by stats maybe Haleltine, if by "honors" then Walker. Morris a consideration, but to me, he;s more of a 1955-65 guy

I think my combined AFL-NFL 1960s picks would be 1st team, 2nd team
MLB = Butkus, Nitschke
OLB = Bell, Robinson
OLB = Howley, Bauguan

As far as HOF and total career, I agree Howley > Robinson...and Howley > Hanburger

Dave Robinson, though, was worthy of ALl-Pro in 1973 and didn't get any mentions. Wilcox and others were entrenched and Robinson changed teams but Robinson graded higher
in 1973 than Hanburger.