Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I believe that Dante Lavelli was a tight end. Dub Jones wound be the Browns flanker in those days and later Ray Renfro.

Saban wrote:I believe that Dante Lavelli was a tight end. Dub Jones wound be the Browns flanker in those days and later Ray Renfro.

he was on the end of the line, same as Fears, Hirsch, even Raymond Berry etc..

JohnTurney wrote:

Saban wrote:I believe that Dante Lavelli was a tight end. Dub Jones wound be the Browns flanker in those days and later Ray Renfro.

he was on the end of the line, same as Fears, Hirsch, even Raymond Berry etc..

Did Berry only split consistently once Mackey showed up? If so, what's the difference between the type of tight end Berry played the year before, and the TE Mackey played his rookie year?

JameisLoseston wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:

Saban wrote:I believe that Dante Lavelli was a tight end. Dub Jones wound be the Browns flanker in those days and later Ray Renfro.

he was on the end of the line, same as Fears, Hirsch, even Raymond Berry etc..

Did Berry only split consistently once Mackey showed up? If so, what's the difference between the type of tight end Berry played the year before, and the TE Mackey played his rookie year?

Usually Lenny Moore split outside the tight end...in the later 1950s Berry began to split.

As with all of this---TJ Troup would be the best for the 1945-60 era. He's just seen more than anyone else and enjoys the era.

But things would also come and go---like the Rams moving Hirsch out, then back to the "tight" position...then flanked again
the Clark Shaughnessy thing. Then, of course, Curly Lambeau splitting Hutson out and "flanking" Johnny Blood in the 36 title game

Which supposedly was the first to do the SE, Flanker thing...but who knows.

Anyway, it is an interesting subject---for sure. When people did something and when it became a "thing"

TanksAndSpartans wrote:
Finally, why do you have Pihos in your top 20? What makes him different? Wasn't he an end like the others? He played from '47 to '55.

As I mentioned it was just a call. But I did want to show this. It's just one example...but here you can see Van Buren motioning out---to flank
Pihos. And of course I would like to see more,



Now when Rams in 1949 did experiment with split end end flanker (that had been done in 1936 by Lambeau, Fears was split

Here you can see a "tight end" to the right


And Waterfield hitting Fears the "split end" if you will--


Again, TJ Troup is best expert on this that I know and he will tell you that the split end/flanker thing was around
teams used it, and then went away from it, then used it. It became more or less standard by mid-1950s but had been used
for maybe 6-7 years prior to that---just a guestimation.

This is a very common formation, even for this Rams, here it is Eagles...it as the fullhouse backfield and 2 "tight ends" But if
the 2 ends were Fears and Hirsch would they be "tight ends"? I don't know. If they were Lavelli and Speedie were they tight ends?
Speedie and Lavelli did this plenty. As I said, this is a great discussion and not sure any of us have all the answers

Interesting to mention that Pihos, Fears, and Lavelli all got nominated as receivers today. Clearly the NFL is taking a side on this debate.

Here is a good illustration of Berry pass blocking Atkins, though he was not a TE, per se but sometimes he had to
do this----part of the old NFL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S49t7nG ... e=youtu.be