Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

bachslunch wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:When is the last time Alexander and Priest Holmes made semifinals? Not sure I recall ever seeing Alexander, their continued blackballing doesn't make much sense when guys like, yeah, Fred Taylor get attention.

I think Taylor made the list because he is the closest eligible RB to the 12K line who isn't over it (Edge is over it). Given that his career was decent and relatively long, it's not surprising -- kind of a lesser compiler type (he never placed higher than 6th in rushing yards in a season). His profile of 0/1/none is nothing special, sorry to say. I wouldn't put him in.

Alexander (2/3/00s) and Holmes (3/3/none) are more "big peak, short career" guys. Kind of like Terrell Davis with a less high peak and less postseason accomplishment. Alexander is arguably the better of the two as his peak lasted longer. I doubt they're going anywhere, and I wouldn't put them in, either.

Don't think "better" is the way to put it. If we're talking "better", Holmes was "better" than Tomlinson, besides LT's GOAT season. Holmes had three of the greatest RB seasons in his first three starting years, and was on his way to having his best one yet when he got hurt. Luckier, sure, but Holmes was probably going to be the best ever if he stayed healthy, and Davis could have been too. I tend to consider injuries just not a player's fault when they're this dominant. That said, Alexander's peak wasn't even that short; more akin to Jim Taylor or SVB than Holmes. Lots of RBs have 5-6 big years and tail off at 30.

I'm the kind of analyst who isn't afraid at all to induct on the basis of one or two transcendent seasons; just ask my Spec Sanders fixation! It does seem to be an uncommon opinion however.

bachslunch wrote:Robert, I would replace the six singled out with Steve Wisniewski, Henry Ellard, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Lowery, Gary Anderson, and Albert Lewis.

I'm pretty sure that sharpes eligibility ran out last year

rewing84 wrote:

bachslunch wrote:Robert, I would replace the six singled out with Steve Wisniewski, Henry Ellard, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Lowery, Gary Anderson, and Albert Lewis.

I'm pretty sure that sharpes eligibility ran out last year

My bad — you’re right. Lomas Brown, Chris Hinton, Lance Briggs, or Ben Coates maybe, though I’m lukewarm about them.

bachslunch wrote:

rewing84 wrote:

bachslunch wrote:Robert, I would replace the six singled out with Steve Wisniewski, Henry Ellard, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Lowery, Gary Anderson, and Albert Lewis.

I'm pretty sure that sharpes eligibility ran out last year

My bad — you’re right. Lomas Brown, Chris Hinton, Lance Briggs, or Ben Coates maybe, though I’m lukewarm about them.

Id take brown and hinton over briggs and coates

JameisLoseston wrote:

bachslunch wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:When is the last time Alexander and Priest Holmes made semifinals? Not sure I recall ever seeing Alexander, their continued blackballing doesn't make much sense when guys like, yeah, Fred Taylor get attention.

I think Taylor made the list because he is the closest eligible RB to the 12K line who isn't over it (Edge is over it). Given that his career was decent and relatively long, it's not surprising -- kind of a lesser compiler type (he never placed higher than 6th in rushing yards in a season). His profile of 0/1/none is nothing special, sorry to say. I wouldn't put him in.

Alexander (2/3/00s) and Holmes (3/3/none) are more "big peak, short career" guys. Kind of like Terrell Davis with a less high peak and less postseason accomplishment. Alexander is arguably the better of the two as his peak lasted longer. I doubt they're going anywhere, and I wouldn't put them in, either.

Don't think "better" is the way to put it. If we're talking "better", Holmes was "better" than Tomlinson, besides LT's GOAT season. Holmes had three of the greatest RB seasons in his first three starting years, and was on his way to having his best one yet when he got hurt. Luckier, sure, but Holmes was probably going to be the best ever if he stayed healthy, and Davis could have been too. I tend to consider injuries just not a player's fault when they're this dominant. That said, Alexander's peak wasn't even that short; more akin to Jim Taylor or SVB than Holmes. Lots of RBs have 5-6 big years and tail off at 30.

I'm the kind of analyst who isn't afraid at all to induct on the basis of one or two transcendent seasons; just ask my Spec Sanders fixation! It does seem to be an uncommon opinion however.

Holmes was really nothing special with Baltimore, where in four seasons he rushed for barely over 2,000 yards. It wasn’t until he moved to the Chiefs that his career took off with 3.5 great seasons. But I can’t help but think how much of that elite production was down to a great OL featuring Roaf, Shields and Waters. After Holmes went down the Chiefs running game didn’t miss a beat with Larry Johnson also posting huge numbers. Priest was also 31 when he got hurt so the natural decline would’ve happened sooner rather than later.

The same can be said for Shaun Alexander benefitting from elite blocking. He was a different RB with and without Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. After Hutch moved to the Vikings, Alexander’s numbers fell off a cliff. A good player and fine career but nowhere near a HOFer for me.

boknows34 wrote:Holmes was really nothing special with Baltimore, where in four seasons he rushed for barely over 2,000 yards. It wasn’t until he moved to the Chiefs that his career took off with 3.5 great seasons. But I can’t help but think how much of that elite production was down to a great OL featuring Roaf, Shields and Waters. After Holmes went down the Chiefs running game didn’t miss a beat with Larry Johnson also posting huge numbers. Priest was also 31 when he got hurt so the natural decline would’ve happened sooner rather than later.

The same can be said for Shaun Alexander benefitting from elite blocking. He was a different RB with and without Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. After Hutch moved to the Vikings, Alexander’s numbers fell off a cliff. A good player and fine career but nowhere near a HOFer for me.

Yeah I think those issues are what is keeping them out. Larry Johnson in particular, kind of reinforces the notion that anyone could go off in that early 2000s Chiefs system. But the same kind of thing happened on the Shanahan Broncos, and it didn't keep them from electing TD. TD was clearly the best Broncos RB, and Holmes was clearly the best Chiefs RB, so there's a bit of a double standard.

JameisLoseston wrote:

boknows34 wrote:Holmes was really nothing special with Baltimore, where in four seasons he rushed for barely over 2,000 yards. It wasn’t until he moved to the Chiefs that his career took off with 3.5 great seasons. But I can’t help but think how much of that elite production was down to a great OL featuring Roaf, Shields and Waters. After Holmes went down the Chiefs running game didn’t miss a beat with Larry Johnson also posting huge numbers. Priest was also 31 when he got hurt so the natural decline would’ve happened sooner rather than later.

The same can be said for Shaun Alexander benefitting from elite blocking. He was a different RB with and without Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. After Hutch moved to the Vikings, Alexander’s numbers fell off a cliff. A good player and fine career but nowhere near a HOFer for me.

Yeah I think those issues are what is keeping them out. Larry Johnson in particular, kind of reinforces the notion that anyone could go off in that early 2000s Chiefs system. But the same kind of thing happened on the Shanahan Broncos, and it didn't keep them from electing TD. TD was clearly the best Broncos RB, and Holmes was clearly the best Chiefs RB, so there's a bit of a double standard.

Very fair point on the Broncos system that made Mike Anderson a whisker short of a 1,500 yard runner and fellow journeymen like Olandis Gary and Rueben Droughns into 1,000 yard rushers. The same Shanahan system even took Alf Morris to over 1,600 yards as a rookie with the Redskins. The talented Clinton Portis also had an amazing first two years before his trade to Washington for Champ Bailey.

TD has that postseason resume though as a double Super Bowl winner, SB MVP, NFL MVP, All Decade and the fourth man to break 2,000 yards rushing in a season. Another case of right place at the right time perhaps.

I think there's a legit argument for Hines Ward for the PFHOF. Firstly though, it's only a matter of time before Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt are inducted.

Ward was the best blocking WR in the NFL in the last 30-40 years. He played in a run-first offense, where passing was not a priority, so his numbers are not obviously off-the-charts. But 1,000 career receptions and over 12,000 career receiving yards are Steelers franchise records. Ward is 25th all-time in career receiving yards, and all of the players ranked higher are either already in the PFHOF or will be someday.

Ward also excelled in the playoffs. Look at his numbers: 2 SBs, 88 catches, 1181 yards and 10 TDs. That's not a bad regular season, but in the playoffs that is pretty good.


Yes, I am very much aware that Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce are all likely ahead of Ward on the pecking order.

Ward is third/fourth in the current pecking order and it’s going to get tougher at the WR position with Calvin Johnson on the ballot next year, followed soon after by Andre Johnson and Steve Smith.

boknows34 wrote:Ward is third/fourth in the current pecking order and it’s going to get tougher at the WR position with Calvin Johnson on the ballot next year, followed soon after by Andre Johnson and Steve Smith.

True enough.

My guess is that they induct the second tier guys in order of eligibility, which would be Bruce, Holt, Ward, Wayne, Megatron, etc.

The only bright spot here is that once Edgerrin James is inducted (very possibly this year), there won’t be any RBs providing competition until Adrian Peterson and Frank Gore come up, which won’t happen for another 5-7 years.