Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JuggernautJ wrote:Also and as stated before, I wouldn't put Hardy Brown on any "All-Time" list that didn't start with the words "Dirty" or "Notorious." I don't believe in rewarding intentionally trying to seriously hurt someone and especially not breaking the rules to do so.

Agreed with this. What amazes me is that this was the era when dirty players sometimes had their career come to a screeching end with the infamous “bootsie” play. I remember reading about this in a Dr. Z article several years ago. Offending players usually got their ankle shattered on things like kickoff coverage by being sandwiched on a takedown by two defenders, having their careers end like this. According to the article Bucko Kilroy, especially notorious for dirty play, was one such recipient. And if anyone were a candidate for this, I’d think it would have been Brown. Maybe he just was careful or got lucky or something. Apparently this kind of thing ended when the pay got better and it just wasn’t done anymore because the stakes were too high. Or something like that.

bachslunch wrote:

JuggernautJ wrote:Also and as stated before, I wouldn't put Hardy Brown on any "All-Time" list that didn't start with the words "Dirty" or "Notorious." I don't believe in rewarding intentionally trying to seriously hurt someone and especially not breaking the rules to do so.

Agreed with this. What amazes me is that this was the era when dirty players sometimes had their career come to a screeching end with the infamous “bootsie” play. I remember reading about this in a Dr. Z article several years ago. Offending players usually got their ankle shattered on things like kickoff coverage by being sandwiched on a takedown by two defenders, having their careers end like this. According to the article Bucko Kilroy, especially notorious for dirty play, was one such recipient. And if anyone were a candidate for this, I’d think it would have been Brown. Maybe he just was careful or got lucky or something. Apparently this kind of thing ended when the pay got better and it just wasn’t done anymore because the stakes were too high. Or something like that.

You'd have to leave off Night Train Lane, Joe Greene, Dick Butkus. You'd basically have to create an All Time team ala the NFL Network (post 1970.)

Brown apparently didn't break the rules of the 1950's game. His shoulder tackles were brutal, but legal at the time. He did pay the price for it. Apparently, later in life, his shoulder was so bad, he couldn't lift his arm to scratch his head.

The Giants ran the bootsie play at least once in 1956, according to Brown's teammate Pat Summerall. Brown suggested Summerall try an onside kick, but he refused. " I kicked off as far as I could kick it, and here comes the whole Giant team after Hardy. They never even looked at the ball."

Bryan wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:here is my take on subject

Rich Moser put up some relatively large ST tackle totals with the 1978-1979 Steelers. How does/did he compare to Zack Valentine in 1979?

RICH MOSER...

PLEASE don’t get me started...“Boy, you wouldn’t know how to write your name if it wasn’t STENCILED on your LOCKER! No seriously, everybody, don’t go getting SOFT on me this summer! You know, you’re sitting around the pool all day; chasing the MUFF around...BREAK-down!! Hell MANN!! Grandmother’s quicker and tougher than YOU pansies! Of course she’s 6’3”, 250...runs a 4.5 forty...(“yeah, we know about that one”)...hey, what’s the matter with YOU, Floyd?? QUARTERBACKS don’t have to do what their coaches say, is that it? Dawson, did you give him that pledge sheet?”

Yes, watching one of my all-time favorite period-pieces at the moment! Perhaps Moser not better than Tasker, Bates, Valentine and, perhaps, many more but can’t help but be biased anyway; and that Classic work he did in the ’78 AFCCG!

What a FINE period-piece for those who yearn of a better (way before internet/soccer-moms/bubble-boys) past time! An even BETTER piece than my suggested, ‘Dazed and Confused’...(Halloween ’65, a drive-in to be made into...condominiums)...`The Hollywood Knights’!! EVEN better!! A Robert Wuhl comedy Masterpiece!!