Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Retro Rider wrote:

JohnH19 wrote:


List of all missed AFL attempts at FG record, from 55 yd FG George Blanda 12/3/1961 until 1970 merger, in chronological order:
AFL

(Snipped for brevity)

List of all misses on record FG attempts between Bert Rechicher's 56 yd FG 9/27/1953 and Tom Dempsey's 63 yd FG 11/8/1970, in chronological order:

(Snipped for brevity)

Source:
http://www.luckyshow.org/football/field ... 20more.htm

My records indicate there were 30 attempts to break Dempsey's record 63-yard FG kick before Mike Prater connected from 64 yards in 2013. The most likely kicker to attempt to break the record was Sebastian Janikowski, who tried to break it on five separate occasions, failing from 76 yards (the longest attempt ever in an NFL game), 66, 65 and twice from 64. Jason Elam tried it three times, from 66, 65 and 64, in addition to tying Dempsey's mark when he connected from 63 yards. Steve Cox missed from 67 and 64 yards, Neil Rackers failed from 68 and 63, and Mark Moseley did not connect from 74 and 70. No other kickers attempted to break Dempsey's record more than once. Moseley was the only kicker who tried twice from 70 yards or longer, the only other kickers to attempt from 70 or longer were the aforementioned Janikowski from 76, Fred Seinfort from 73, and Joe Danelo and Phil Dawson both from 71.

Since Prater established the new record of 64, there have been two attempts so far to break it, with Blair Walsh of the Vikings failing from 68 yards in 2014 and Cairo Santos of the Chiefs unsuccessful from 66 yards in 2015.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

Retro Rider wrote:

JohnH19 wrote:


List of all missed AFL attempts at FG record, from 55 yd FG George Blanda 12/3/1961 until 1970 merger, in chronological order:
AFL

(Snipped for brevity)

List of all misses on record FG attempts between Bert Rechicher's 56 yd FG 9/27/1953 and Tom Dempsey's 63 yd FG 11/8/1970, in chronological order:

(Snipped for brevity)

Source:
http://www.luckyshow.org/football/field ... 20more.htm

My records indicate there were 30 attempts to break Dempsey's record 63-yard FG kick before Mike Prater connected from 64 yards in 2013. The most likely kicker to attempt to break the record was Sebastian Janikowski, who tried to break it on five separate occasions, failing from 76 yards (the longest attempt ever in an NFL game), 66, 65 and twice from 64. Jason Elam tried it three times, from 66, 65 and 64, in addition to tying Dempsey's mark when he connected from 63 yards. Steve Cox missed from 67 and 64 yards, Neil Rackers failed from 68 and 63, and Mark Moseley did not connect from 74 and 70. No other kickers attempted to break Dempsey's record more than once. Moseley was the only kicker who tried twice from 70 yards or longer, the only other kickers to attempt from 70 or longer were the aforementioned Janikowski from 76, Fred Seinfort from 73, and Joe Danelo and Phil Dawson both from 71.

Since Prater established the new record of 64, there have been two attempts so far to break it, with Blair Walsh of the Vikings failing from 68 yards in 2014 and Cairo Santos of the Chiefs unsuccessful from 66 yards in 2015.

awesme stuff...

JohnTurney wrote:
As for differences in your list and the one I am making now (revised with NFGSIS #s), I get a partial career for:
Chip Lohmiller 405 25254 62.4 91 7 300 6053 4 7 1
Greg Davis 433 26056 60.2 46 14 354 7783 5 17 4
Fuad Reveiz 388 23391 60.3 65 10 308 6620 2 5 0
Nick Lowery 300 17823 59.4 10 65 241 4803 0 4 0

and one math difference

Ugh, something screwy happened. Here (I hope) is the correct list:

Rank Player KO YDS AVG OB TB RET RETY RETTD OSK OSR
1 Mitch Berger 562 37292 66.4 9 96 455 11031 7 2 0
2 Greg Zuerlein 341 22306 65.4 1 201 137 3158 1 2 1
3 Thomas Morstead 533 34809 65.3 3 258 267 6718 2 5 1
4 Pat McAfee 659 42797 64.9 3 350 293 7251 2 14 4
5 Matt Prater 516 33470 64.9 2 266 239 5885 4 9 2
6 Michael Husted 486 31412 64.6 6 95 375 7799 2 10 1
7 Steven Hauschka 630 40715 64.6 4 266 352 8251 2 8 1
8 Morten Andersen 850 54910 64.6 5 235 585 13532 9 21 5
9 Graham Gano 542 34982 64.5 4 320 214 4783 0 5 0
10 Brad Daluiso 635 40979 64.5 12 221 395 8778 1 8 1
11 Michael Koenen 753 48565 64.5 7 273 452 9727 3 23 7
12 Stephen Gostkowski 1025 65860 64.3 11 412 592 12968 4 8 3
13 Jason Hanson 1522 97534 64.1 24 323 1144 26283 12 34 6
14 Jeff Wilkins 1029 65901 64.0 15 135 859 20752 13 20 9
15 Blair Walsh 373 23886 64.0 3 210 158 4025 2 4 0
16 Olindo Mare 1086 69534 64.0 12 301 747 16738 4 35 10
17 Josh Scobee 754 48216 63.9 17 256 467 10369 4 16 5
18 John Hall 635 40599 63.9 8 101 520 11561 2 8 1
19 Josh Brown 954 60982 63.9 15 212 710 16159 3 20 4
20 Billy Cundiff 524 33466 63.9 4 194 312 7097 1 10 3
21 Toby Gowin 593 37822 63.8 1 63 517 10854 3 12 5
22 Wade Richey 513 32684 63.7 15 112 378 20541 4 8 0
23 Matt Bosher 525 33429 63.7 1 283 229 5447 0 12 3
24 David Akers 1156 73569 63.6 13 214 914 20652 4 21 8
25 Justin Tucker 412 26217 63.6 2 266 135 3085 0 8 0
26 Rob Bironas 690 43862 63.6 14 196 465 11166 3 17 5
27 Micah Knorr 332 21051 63.4 2 47 274 6166 0 10 4
28 Joe Nedney 789 49946 63.3 14 117 629 13595 3 30 10
29 Dan Carpenter 513 32444 63.2 6 159 342 8060 3 7 2
30 Caleb Sturgis 314 19841 63.2 3 160 145 3293 1 6 0
31 Sebastian Janikowski 1260 79591 63.2 15 404 815 19610 8 31 2
32 Neil Rackers 757 47808 63.2 7 156 566 13480 7 24 11
33 Jay Feely 937 59173 63.2 14 188 710 16095 6 27 6
34 Jason Elam 757 47755 63.1 6 76 669 14194 5 8 0
35 Mike Nugent 737 46415 63.0 6 217 501 11569 3 17 3
36 Adam Vinatieri 1049 65932 62.9 8 88 939 20883 6 10 1
37 Lee Johnson 431 27075 62.8 13 92 321 7512 6 5 1
38 Dan Bailey 506 31769 62.8 2 264 228 5000 2 13 3
39 Nate Kaeding 626 39223 62.7 9 56 558 12378 8 3 2
40 Nick Novak 543 34003 62.6 4 127 400 9269 2 10 4
41 Martin Gramatica 500 31251 62.5 9 50 431 9400 1 8 1
42 Ryan Succop 569 35534 62.4 11 252 289 6963 4 20 1
43 Robbie Gould 872 54402 62.4 15 246 594 13066 2 19 1
44 Mason Crosby 887 55310 62.4 16 272 582 13616 2 20 6
45 Chip Lohmiller 405 25254 62.4 7 91 300 6053 4 7 2
46 John Carney 966 60178 62.3 14 112 827 18116 4 12 3
47 Todd Sauerbrun 543 33702 62.1 20 71 440 9698 1 16 1
48 Nick Folk 652 40450 62.0 10 143 483 10494 5 14 2
49 Lawrence Tynes 693 42971 62.0 9 93 582 13203 2 13 1
50 Kris Brown 819 50753 62.0 11 87 697 15292 4 25 6
51 Ryan Longwell 1217 75108 61.7 19 88 1090 24105 6 27 7
52 John Kasay 968 59525 61.5 25 92 828 17145 3 29 1
53 Doug Brien 555 34069 61.4 10 42 493 10865 2 14 2
54 Shayne Graham 738 45297 61.4 11 77 641 13854 3 8 1
55 Matt Stover 1032 63325 61.4 16 122 878 18273 4 15 4
56 Chris Gardocki 478 29295 61.3 8 56 401 8783 4 17 4
57 Shaun Suisham 613 37486 61.2 16 139 446 9552 4 15 1
58 Matt Bryant 411 25114 61.1 8 25 371 7679 2 6 2
59 Jeff Reed 666 40649 61.0 6 50 598 13103 9 8 1
60 Todd Peterson 639 38984 61.0 14 33 580 12473 5 14 2
61 Phil Dawson 1097 66875 61.0 14 179 869 18060 5 32 5
62 Rian Lindell 848 51467 60.7 12 69 741 15477 6 18 5
63 Gary Anderson 474 28727 60.6 14 71 383 8211 3 6 2
64 Pete Stoyanovich 657 39739 60.5 7 59 583 11935 3 7 0
65 Fuad Reveiz 388 23391 60.3 10 65 308 6620 2 5 0
66 Craig Hentrich 559 33669 60.2 10 57 475 9702 2 13 3
67 Mike Vanderjagt 342 20585 60.2 2 11 325 7052 2 4 1
68 Greg Davis 433 26056 60.2 14 46 354 7783 5 17 4
69 Mike Hollis 412 24757 60.1 7 22 367 8410 5 18 6
70 Chris Boniol 373 22387 60.0 6 14 342 6948 0 11 1
71 Steve Christie 876 52554 60.0 10 122 733 15424 6 18 2
72 Norm Johnson 579 34730 60.0 11 42 504 10003 3 13 5
73 Jeff Jaeger 424 25284 59.6 12 77 324 6637 2 12 4
74 Nick Lowery 300 17823 59.4 8 47 241 4803 0 4 0
75 Paul Edinger 395 23365 59.2 8 11 360 7724 1 16 3
76 Al Del Greco 489 28705 58.7 9 43 418 7896 0 19 7
77 Chris Jacke 399 23073 57.8 12 33 346 6215 3 5 1
78 Eddie Murray 304 17138 56.4 13 16 264 5226 2 9 3

TodMaher wrote:
Ugh, something screwy happened. Here (I hope) is the correct list:

Rank Player KO YDS AVG OB TB RET RETY RETTD OSK OSR
1 Mitch Berger 562 37292 66.4 9 96 455 11031 7 2 0
2 Greg Zuerlein 341 22306 65.4 1 201 137 3158 1 2 1
3 Thomas Morstead 533 34809 65.3 3 258 267 6718 2 5 1
4 Pat McAfee 659 42797 64.9 3 350 293 7251 2 14 4
5 Matt Prater 516 33470 64.9 2 266 239 5885 4 9 2
6 Michael Husted 486 31412 64.6 6 95 375 7799 2 10 1
7 Steven Hauschka 630 40715 64.6 4 266 352 8251 2 8 1
8 Morten Andersen 850 54910 64.6 5 235 585 13532 9 21 5
9 Graham Gano 542 34982 64.5 4 320 214 4783 0 5 0
10 Brad Daluiso 635 40979 64.5 12 221 395 8778 1 8 1
11 Michael Koenen 753 48565 64.5 7 273 452 9727 3 23 7
12 Stephen Gostkowski 1025 65860 64.3 11 412 592 12968 4 8 3
13 Jason Hanson 1522 97534 64.1 24 323 1144 26283 12 34 6
14 Jeff Wilkins 1029 65901 64.0 15 135 859 20752 13 20 9
15 Blair Walsh 373 23886 64.0 3 210 158 4025 2 4 0
16 Olindo Mare 1086 69534 64.0 12 301 747 16738 4 35 10
17 Josh Scobee 754 48216 63.9 17 256 467 10369 4 16 5
18 John Hall 635 40599 63.9 8 101 520 11561 2 8 1
19 Josh Brown 954 60982 63.9 15 212 710 16159 3 20 4
20 Billy Cundiff 524 33466 63.9 4 194 312 7097 1 10 3
21 Toby Gowin 593 37822 63.8 1 63 517 10854 3 12 5
22 Wade Richey 513 32684 63.7 15 112 378 20541 4 8 0
23 Matt Bosher 525 33429 63.7 1 283 229 5447 0 12 3
24 David Akers 1156 73569 63.6 13 214 914 20652 4 21 8
25 Justin Tucker 412 26217 63.6 2 266 135 3085 0 8 0
26 Rob Bironas 690 43862 63.6 14 196 465 11166 3 17 5
27 Micah Knorr 332 21051 63.4 2 47 274 6166 0 10 4
28 Joe Nedney 789 49946 63.3 14 117 629 13595 3 30 10
29 Dan Carpenter 513 32444 63.2 6 159 342 8060 3 7 2
30 Caleb Sturgis 314 19841 63.2 3 160 145 3293 1 6 0
31 Sebastian Janikowski 1260 79591 63.2 15 404 815 19610 8 31 2
32 Neil Rackers 757 47808 63.2 7 156 566 13480 7 24 11
33 Jay Feely 937 59173 63.2 14 188 710 16095 6 27 6
34 Jason Elam 757 47755 63.1 6 76 669 14194 5 8 0
35 Mike Nugent 737 46415 63.0 6 217 501 11569 3 17 3
36 Adam Vinatieri 1049 65932 62.9 8 88 939 20883 6 10 1
37 Lee Johnson 431 27075 62.8 13 92 321 7512 6 5 1
38 Dan Bailey 506 31769 62.8 2 264 228 5000 2 13 3
39 Nate Kaeding 626 39223 62.7 9 56 558 12378 8 3 2
40 Nick Novak 543 34003 62.6 4 127 400 9269 2 10 4
41 Martin Gramatica 500 31251 62.5 9 50 431 9400 1 8 1
42 Ryan Succop 569 35534 62.4 11 252 289 6963 4 20 1
43 Robbie Gould 872 54402 62.4 15 246 594 13066 2 19 1
44 Mason Crosby 887 55310 62.4 16 272 582 13616 2 20 6
45 Chip Lohmiller 405 25254 62.4 7 91 300 6053 4 7 2
46 John Carney 966 60178 62.3 14 112 827 18116 4 12 3
47 Todd Sauerbrun 543 33702 62.1 20 71 440 9698 1 16 1
48 Nick Folk 652 40450 62.0 10 143 483 10494 5 14 2
49 Lawrence Tynes 693 42971 62.0 9 93 582 13203 2 13 1
50 Kris Brown 819 50753 62.0 11 87 697 15292 4 25 6
51 Ryan Longwell 1217 75108 61.7 19 88 1090 24105 6 27 7
52 John Kasay 968 59525 61.5 25 92 828 17145 3 29 1
53 Doug Brien 555 34069 61.4 10 42 493 10865 2 14 2
54 Shayne Graham 738 45297 61.4 11 77 641 13854 3 8 1
55 Matt Stover 1032 63325 61.4 16 122 878 18273 4 15 4
56 Chris Gardocki 478 29295 61.3 8 56 401 8783 4 17 4
57 Shaun Suisham 613 37486 61.2 16 139 446 9552 4 15 1
58 Matt Bryant 411 25114 61.1 8 25 371 7679 2 6 2
59 Jeff Reed 666 40649 61.0 6 50 598 13103 9 8 1
60 Todd Peterson 639 38984 61.0 14 33 580 12473 5 14 2
61 Phil Dawson 1097 66875 61.0 14 179 869 18060 5 32 5
62 Rian Lindell 848 51467 60.7 12 69 741 15477 6 18 5
63 Gary Anderson 474 28727 60.6 14 71 383 8211 3 6 2
64 Pete Stoyanovich 657 39739 60.5 7 59 583 11935 3 7 0
65 Fuad Reveiz 388 23391 60.3 10 65 308 6620 2 5 0
66 Craig Hentrich 559 33669 60.2 10 57 475 9702 2 13 3
67 Mike Vanderjagt 342 20585 60.2 2 11 325 7052 2 4 1
68 Greg Davis 433 26056 60.2 14 46 354 7783 5 17 4
69 Mike Hollis 412 24757 60.1 7 22 367 8410 5 18 6
70 Chris Boniol 373 22387 60.0 6 14 342 6948 0 11 1
71 Steve Christie 876 52554 60.0 10 122 733 15424 6 18 2
72 Norm Johnson 579 34730 60.0 11 42 504 10003 3 13 5
73 Jeff Jaeger 424 25284 59.6 12 77 324 6637 2 12 4
74 Nick Lowery 300 17823 59.4 8 47 241 4803 0 4 0
75 Paul Edinger 395 23365 59.2 8 11 360 7724 1 16 3
76 Al Del Greco 489 28705 58.7 9 43 418 7896 0 19 7
77 Chris Jacke 399 23073 57.8 12 33 346 6215 3 5 1
78 Eddie Murray 304 17138 56.4 13 16 264 5226 2 9 3

That matches with what I posted earlier this evening... thanks.

And for anyone interested I estimated Morten Andersen's touchbacks for 1982-90. I look the number of games plus the number of touchdowns scored and the number of field goals made plus safeties to get and estimate of kickoffs. Usually the punter handles the kickoffs after a safety, but that is why it is an estimate.

So, we have an esitmate number of kickoffs, then take the oppoenent returns and what wasn't returned has a high chance of being a touchback. Morten Anderson's career "OB" percentge is less than one perfect (they vary) but that gives and estimate of touchbacks.

His estimate is 257, give or take. Or about 40% of this kickoffs. That would give him a career total of just under 500 and a career percentae of touchbacks of about 33%

And, Saints ranked (in these "non returns, presumed touchbacks" 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in this category---of couse the the stipulation tha a small percentage were OB. in 1989 and 1990 Lee Johnson of the Bengals apparently beat Anderson out.

BD Sullivan wrote:

Retro Rider wrote:Very interesting stuff. A few observations from the 1960-79 list:

- Pete Gogolak kicked a 57 yard FG in his first pro (exhibition) game on 8/8/64, but finished 1/18 lifetime from 50+ (beginners luck?)

- Curt Knight only 2/14 from 50+ but hit a big one in the '72 NFC title game

- Fred Cox only 2/24 from 50+ yards. His first 50 yarder came in 1965 (the only NFL kicker with a 50 yard FG that season). His next successful 50 yard attempt didn't come until 1975.

During Paul Hornung's brutal 1964 season as a kicker, he made his only 50+ attempt and was 11 for 37 everywhere else

Hornung's 52-yard field goal against the Bears was a fair catch kick attempt.

JohnTurney wrote:

TodMaher wrote:
Ugh, something screwy happened. Here (I hope) is the correct list:

Rank Player KO YDS AVG OB TB RET RETY RETTD OSK OSR
1 Mitch Berger 562 37292 66.4 9 96 455 11031 7 2 0
2 Greg Zuerlein 341 22306 65.4 1 201 137 3158 1 2 1
3 Thomas Morstead 533 34809 65.3 3 258 267 6718 2 5 1

(LIST EDITED FOR BREVITY)

76 Al Del Greco 489 28705 58.7 9 43 418 7896 0 19 7
77 Chris Jacke 399 23073 57.8 12 33 346 6215 3 5 1
78 Eddie Murray 304 17138 56.4 13 16 264 5226 2 9 3

That matches with what I posted earlier this evening... thanks.

And for anyone interested I estimated Morten Andersen's touchbacks for 1982-90. I look the number of games plus the number of touchdowns scored and the number of field goals made plus safeties to get and estimate of kickoffs. Usually the punter handles the kickoffs after a safety, but that is why it is an estimate.

So, we have an esitmate number of kickoffs, then take the oppoenent returns and what wasn't returned has a high chance of being a touchback. Morten Anderson's career "OB" percentge is less than one perfect (they vary) but that gives and estimate of touchbacks.

His estimate is 257, give or take. Or about 40% of this kickoffs. That would give him a career total of just under 500 and a career percentae of touchbacks of about 33%

And, Saints ranked (in these "non returns, presumed touchbacks" 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in this category---of couse the the stipulation tha a small percentage were OB. in 1989 and 1990 Lee Johnson of the Bengals apparently beat Anderson out.

John, did you find a higher percentage of touchbacks in New Orleans other domed stadiums (Detroit, Minnesota, etc) as opposed to the rest of the league? One would think that kicking in a dome, unaffected by the wind, would give the kicker an optimum chance of making a perfect kickoff. In other stadiums, with the wind coming in whatever direction or swirling around inside the stadium, it is going to affect the kick one way or another. Morten Andersen had the strongest kicking leg of his generation, and one of the strongest kicking legs of all time (along with Stenerud, Janikowski, and a couple others) which helped NO lead the lead in the presumed touchbacks category, but I think the Dome may have played a role also.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:

TodMaher wrote:


John, did you find a higher percentage of touchbacks in New Orleans other domed stadiums (Detroit, Minnesota, etc) as opposed to the rest of the league? One would think that kicking in a dome, unaffected by the wind, would give the kicker an optimum chance of making a perfect kickoff. In other stadiums, with the wind coming in whatever direction or swirling around inside the stadium, it is going to affect the kick one way or another. Morten Andersen had the strongest kicking leg of his generation, and one of the strongest kicking legs of all time (along with Stenerud, Janikowski, and a couple others) which helped NO lead the lead in the presumed touchbacks category, but I think the Dome may have played a role also.

I didn't do home and away, just a simple total. However, PFR has splits for kickers, home and away and dome and outdoor for every kicker, not sure when it starts . . .
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 01/splits/

Stadium dome 210 113 97 0 461 463 99.6 338 419 80.7 0 1475
outdoors 164 74 90 0 375 383 97.9 225 288 78.1 0 1050
retroof 3 2 1 0 13 13 100.0 2 2 100.0 0 19

Andersen is 2.6 points higher in dome.



Gary Anderson has huge difference 85.0 versus 78.5
Stadium dome 84 54 30 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 214 217 98.6 130 153 85.0 0 604
outdoors 259 146 113 0 1 3 3.00 0 0.0 0.0 600 604 99.3 406 517 78.5 0 1818
retroof 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 6 6 100.0 2 2 100.0 0 12

But I agree, domes help kickers in kickoffs and field goals.

rhickok1109 wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote: During Paul Hornung's brutal 1964 season as a kicker, he made his only 50+ attempt and was 11 for 37 everywhere else

Hornung's 52-yard field goal against the Bears was a fair catch kick attempt.

And from what I recently read on the subject, Hornung's 52 yarder is the only successful 50+ fair catch kick.

Retro Rider wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote: During Paul Hornung's brutal 1964 season as a kicker, he made his only 50+ attempt and was 11 for 37 everywhere else

Hornung's 52-yard field goal against the Bears was a fair catch kick attempt.

And from what I recently read on the subject, Hornung's 52 yarder is the only successful 50+ fair catch kick.

Yes. In fact, only 6 of 26 fair catch kicks have been successful. I guess that's not surprising, since most of them have been attempted from rather long distances, topped by a 74-yard attempt by Mark Moseley in 1979. Fred Steinfort attempted a 73-yarder and there have been seven other attempts from 60 yards or more.