Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JuggernautJ wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:Don Rogers dying of a cocaine overdose--eight days after Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose.

See?
Its this kind of judgmental bias that is exactly of what I spoke.

I mean no discourtesy to Mr Sullivan or anyone else here but until you've walked a mile in those shoes you might want to be a little more generous with your judgments and proclamations.

I see drug abusers as people with a problem who need understanding and assistance.
They (or we) are ill and don't deserve to be in a "Hall of Shame" because of that illness.

That's the kind of thinking that creates leper colonies and, from personal experience, unfair judgments are what caused a decent percentage of these problems in the first place.

I won't rant anymore but I think it would be great if we could stick to issues that don't involve as much personal opinion.

I'll try, at the risk, to bring some nuance to this. I remember exactly where I was when Leng Bias died, and being shocked by Roger's. But those were different times. I feel very different about recent players who have much greater access to help and programs than players from back then.

To me, hall of sham3 would have wings. There's the bust wing, the you threw it away yourself wing (some overlap with the druggie, but Trent Richardson and more recently Eddie Lacy seem to be eating their way out of the league), and the you're a cancer wing (which could even include a TO or the like).

JuggernautJ wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:Don Rogers dying of a cocaine overdose--eight days after Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose.

See?
Its this kind of judgmental bias that is exactly of what I spoke.

I mean no discourtesy to Mr Sullivan or anyone else here but until you've walked a mile in those shoes you might want to be a little more generous with your judgments and proclamations.

I see drug abusers as people with a problem who need understanding and assistance.
They (or we) are ill and don't deserve to be in a "Hall of Shame" because of that illness.

That's the kind of thinking that creates leper colonies and, from personal experience, unfair judgments are what caused a decent percentage of these problems in the first place.

I won't rant anymore but I think it would be great if we could stick to issues that don't involve as much personal opinion.

You're entitled to your opinion, as is everyone. I don't think it's appropriate to try and stifle discussion by imposing your opinion on everyone else.

I have a lot of sympathy for addicts. I deal with them every day of my working life in the court system. I've met literally thousands of them in 20+ years in the justice system. None of them were top five draft picks with multi-million dollar contracts. I don't need to walk a mile in Josh Gordon's shoes, or Charles Rogers', or Len Bias, for that matter. They had it all and they threw it away, because they thought they were entitled. So I'm going to go ahead and judge. That's what we do here, in almost every thread. We look at the information available, and we make a judgment.

Randy Woodfield? Ok, so you probably wouldn't expect much from a 17th round draft pick, but he didn't make the Packers and subsequently went on to do other things.

Sam Hurd? Again, what do you expect on the field from an undrafted free agent? Decent special teamer, but didn't do much as a WR. Had a side business that ended his career.

Albert Hainesworth ...

JWL wrote:

sheajets wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote:Leon Lett

I would disagree. He had two forgivable, goofy moments. One in a Super Bowl that was long since decided, another cost them a game...but the Cowboys repeated as Champions that year anyway. Other than that, he had a solid career.

He also had a long suspension for drug use.

But still...he's nowhere near deserving to be mentioned in this category. Early-'90s, as a Steeler-fan, I would have loved for him to be on our D-line.

My basis for "nominating" Rogers was the fact that with that HUGE story still resonating eight days later, Rogers was such a mess that it didn't register with him what he might be doing to himself. To compound the tragedy, he did it the day before he was supposed to be married.

I get the whole, "He was sick and we need compassion for his circumstances," but at a certain point, abdicating basic responsibility doesn't deserve a great deal of sympathy.

Eugene Robinson and Barret Robbins

I struggle with calling addictions an illness or a disease. I think of them as the result of bad choices.

Darren Sharper

ChrisBabcock wrote:Darren Sharper

Sharper is just being nominated for his off the field behavior. If that's the case, I will nominate one Orenthal James Simpson.

Gabriel Rivera.

The Steelers pass on Dan Marino in an attempt to rebuild the team on defense. Guy starts playing well a few weeks into his rookie season then decides to drive drunk and get himself paralyzed.