QBs who remind you of pitchers ... and vice versa

[bachslunch]

I would assume that its easier for a pitcher to compile high ERA+ and WAR in a hitter-friendly era. For Koufax to have matched Pedro's 154 ERA+, he would have needed something like a 0.42 ERA. Koufax made his name in the postseason...0.95 ERA, sub 1.00 WHIP, 61 Ks in 57 IP.

ERA-plus and WAR are adjusted for park, era, and position. That should take into account Pedro pitching in a major live-ball era and much of it in a hitter's park.

[bachslunch]

In the seventh game of the 1965 World Series, Sandy Koufax beat the Minnesota Twins 2-0 with a 3-hit shutout. This game was at Minnesota in a good hitters park and the Twins had the strongest lineup in baseball that year. Koufax was pitching on two-days rest after a long season. His arm was throbbing with pain and he didn't have a curve ball that day.

Koufax still won. I recall during 1963-66 listening to games on the radio with Koufax pitching. If the Dodgers went ahead 1-0, you'd think-That's it, game's over. And it often was.

Right.

I am not at all unaware of the effects of Dodger Stadium, but I have no hesitation in saying Koufax in those last few years was the best pitcher I've ever seen.

Perhaps not coincidentally, Koufax led the league in ERA-plus in 1964 and 1966. And he was indeed excellent in the postseason. Never said Koufax was a bad pitcher, just not the best ever.

[SixtiesFan]

In the seventh game of the 1965 World Series, Sandy Koufax beat the Minnesota Twins 2-0 with a 3-hit shutout. This game was at Minnesota in a good hitters park and the Twins had the strongest lineup in baseball that year. Koufax was pitching on two-days rest after a long season. His arm was throbbing with pain and he didn't have a curve ball that day.

Koufax still won. I recall during 1963-66 listening to games on the radio with Koufax pitching. If the Dodgers went ahead 1-0, you'd think-That's it, game's over. And it often was.

Right.

I am not at all unaware of the effects of Dodger Stadium, but I have no hesitation in saying Koufax in those last few years was the best pitcher I've ever seen.

Perhaps not coincidentally, Koufax led the league in ERA-plus in 1964 and 1966. And he was indeed excellent in the postseason. Never said Koufax was a bad pitcher, just not the best ever.

No, you wouldn't say Koufax was the best ever by the criteria of a long career. For his first seven seasons, 1955-61, Koufax was a .500 pitcher, 54-53. He was better in 1962, but had an injury curtailing his effectiveness and probably costing the Dodgers the 1962 pennant.

I would take the Sandy Koufax of 1963-66 over anybody.

[BD Sullivan]

This thread's seemingly getting close to being shut down, given the baseball-only comments that dominate it.

[oldecapecod11]

Well, we can't have that, can we? Too many people seem to be enjoying this thread.

So...

Allie Sherman reminds me of Sandy Koufax:

Both southpaws; both born in Brooklyn; both graduates of prestigious universities not some temple of athletic adulation;
both had short careers; both were extremely successful in their chosen sport; both were dedicated students of their game
and explored every possibility for success; both were Jewish and both were a credit to their family, their sport, their Country
and their Religion.

Wondering... would the same threat be implied if the talk was of tweedledee and tweedledum?

[Evan]

Wow, some very interesting observations! This topic is so open to interpretation that almost anything goes, it's kind of like free association -- what pitcher pops into your mind when you think of a given QB? That being said, I think the person who made the Joe Gilliam-Dock Ellis connection was genius. I totally get it. Spot on!