Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Stabler had an interesting start to his career. He did not play his first two seasons with the Raiders. He was not even on the active roster.

Despite Lamonica being the AFL MVP in 1967, not only did the Raiders draft Stabler in the 2nd round, but they drafted Eldridge Dickey in the first round. I suppose with the elderly George Blanda about to retire "at any time", Al Davis thought the Raiders needed backups. Of course, not only Lamonica but Blanda had MVP seasons still to come.

Moreover, the third string job wasn't even there for the taking. Raiders also had not quite so old Cotton Davidson with the organization. So neither Stabler nor Dickey even played in a preseason game at quarterback. Stabler played one game of minor league football in 1968, then hurt his knee. Dickey played at WR a little bit, but was stuck behind Warren Wells and Biletnikoff and only caught one pass.

Stabler came back in 1969. So did Dickey, and they each got a chance at QB. The Raiders played the Cowboys in a rookie preseason game, with Roger Staubach playing his first game ever for the Cowboys. Raiders won easily, 33-0. Both Stabler and Dickey played well.

Still, Stabler felt that Dickey was outplaying him, and these are guys fighting for a third string job. So Stabler walked out of training camp and went home to Alabama. Dickey played the rest of the preseason. I wrote an article on this, and for preseason statistics Dickey and Roger Staubach were similar. Inconsistent passing with good running ability. But Staubach had a pathway open up when Meredith retired. Dickey (and Stabler) didn't have the same opportunity. So Dickey never got to play QB in the regular season in 1969.

Whatever Dickey showed the Raiders during 1969, Al Davis sent John Madden down to Alabama to talk Ken Stabler into playing again. Dickey was moved back to WR. Dickey couldn't even make the opening day roster in 1970. Wells and Biletnikoff were still there, Rod Sherman was an experienced backup, and Drew Buie was a special teams ace. Dickey left the team temporarily when he was put on the taxi squad.

I have read things about Dickey having bad practice habits. I think from 1970 on his attitude could be called into question. Don't know how it was the first two years. Once Blanda proved he could continue as an able backup, the Stabler/Dickey situation just became unfortunate. High caliber players shouldn't be forced to fight for a third string job. When Warren Wells started playing at an All Pro level, there was no room for Dickey at WR either. Al Davis probably should have encouraged Dickey to go to Canada.

Evan wrote:Is Stabler the first QB to make the Pro Bowl in the 1970s to pass away? I think the others that come to mind (Namath, Griese, Bradshaw, Pastorini, Hart, Tarkenton, Staubach, Kilmer, Brodie, Gabriel, Manning, Morton, Jones, Fouts, etc.) are still here, thank goodness.

Of the QBs that started a Super Bowl, Stabler sadly joins Unitas, Morrall, Woodley and McNair as the ones that have passed away.

One thing I forgot to add about Stabler's beginnings with the Raiders:

With drafting Dickey and Stabler in the first two rounds, I thought maybe the Raiders would have been hurt, since they were a contending team and they drafted two players who wouldn't pay immediate dividends (never in the case of Dickey.) But they still added Art Shell, Charlie Smith, George Atkinson, Marv Hubbard, and Chip Oliver in that draft. So I don't think they were hurt all that much.

Jay Z wrote:Still, Stabler felt that Dickey was outplaying him, and these are guys fighting for a third string job. So Stabler walked out of training camp and went home to Alabama. Dickey played the rest of the preseason. I wrote an article on this, and for preseason statistics Dickey and Roger Staubach were similar. Inconsistent passing with good running ability. But Staubach had a pathway open up when Meredith retired. Dickey (and Stabler) didn't have the same opportunity. So Dickey never got to play QB in the regular season in 1969.
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I have read things about Dickey having bad practice habits. I think from 1970 on his attitude could be called into question. Don't know how it was the first two years. Once Blanda proved he could continue as an able backup, the Stabler/Dickey situation just became unfortunate. High caliber players shouldn't be forced to fight for a third string job. When Warren Wells started playing at an All Pro level, there was no room for Dickey at WR either. Al Davis probably should have encouraged Dickey to go to Canada.

With respect to Staubach, had Meredith retired right after the 1968 season, or even as late as 3-4 months later, Staubach might not have gotten the chance to get his feet wet, and thus demanded a trade. That's because Jerry Rhome had been the third-string QB for the Cowboys, but they dealt him to the Browns in May 1969. Then, Meredith retired just weeks before training camp started.

Given the fact that Wells was already on probation for a 1969 attempted rape conviction, it's surprising that Al Davis didn't make a more concerted effort to develop Dickey, since Wells was eventually lost for good when he was sent to prison for violating that probation two years later.

BD Sullivan wrote:With respect to Staubach, had Meredith retired after the 1968 season, or even as late as 3-4 months later, Staubach might not have gotten the chance to get his feet wet, and thus demanded a trade. That's because Jerry Rhome had been the third-string QB for the Cowboys, but they dealt him to the Browns in May 1969. Then, Meredith retired just weeks before training camp started.

Given the fact that Wells was already on probation for a 1969 attempted rape conviction, it's surprising that Al Davis didn't make a more concerted effort to develop Dickey, since Wells was eventually lost for good when he was sent to prison for violating that probation two years later.

I agree about Staubach. Once he was guaranteed the backup job with Meredith and Rhome leaving, it was an ideal situation since he was too raw in 1969-70 anyway.

Hate to say it, but I said that Staubach and Dickey had similar statistics in the 1969 preseason. This includes running the ball. The bottom line is that Staubach was given more latitude in running the ball because he was white. I don't know that the coaches at the time necessarily liked a white QB running the ball, but it didn't create the automatic call to move to another position. It has been brought up as a topic by African Americans. The early black QBs that got playing time - James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Doug Williams, Warren Moon - either couldn't run all that well or refrained from doing so.

Looked up Dickey's college stats, Stabler as well. Dickey was a starter all four years at Tennessee State. Stabler must have played some running back as a sophomore, because the regular QB was Steve Sloan. Yet Stabler still rushed for 328 yards. Stabler was the regular QB as a junior and senior, though he only attempted 114 passes as a junior. As a senior he was around 200 attempts, which is about what Dickey averaged. Their stats are somewhat similar.

Joe Gilliam also went to Tennessee State. Based on comparing his stats to Dickey's, I think Dickey deserved a chance as an NFL QB. Dickey was 6'2" and did not have the height issue of Marlin Briscoe. Joe Gilliam had his off the field issues and still got a chance to play, with a good team at that.

As far as Dickey getting more of a chance at WR, he did play there extensively in the 1970 preseason. He just didn't make the team. The Raiders were trying to get to the Super Bowl, and had four guys they could use more. Dickey was behind two All-Pro players as starters. Rod Sherman started for other teams, and caught three post-season TD passes in his career with the Raiders.

With Wells suspended, Dickey did make the team in 1971. Still stuck behind Rod Sherman. Dickey got a couple of starts when Sherman left the team briefly because he wasn't happy with something or other. Scored his only NFL TD in one of them, then got suspended for missing practices.

Like I said, regardless of his attitude, Dickey was probably good enough to deserve a chance. The only thing I can think of similar to the Stabler/Dickey issue is when the Jets came up with Namath and John Huarte in 1965. They still had the prior season's QBs in Dick Wood and Mike Taliaferro. Both of those guys were capable of being pro quarterbacks. But they wound up trading Wood, and Namath started backed up by Taliaferro. Huarte hung around for a long time, but nearly always as third string with various teams.

If anyone is curious to see footage of Dickey, the 1965 Grantland Rice Bowl is on YouTube. Dickey was a sophomore at Tennessee State at the time.

Edit: One thing I should add about Al Davis. Davis liked to accumulate talent and was loath to give it up. I think he would prefer to have a player sit on the taxi squad unused rather than give the player up and have him come back to play against the Raiders. Davis kept Ben Davidson on the taxi squad for two entire seasons at the end of his career. Not trading Lamonica at the end was another instance. There were others.

Jay Z wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:With respect to Staubach, had Meredith retired after the 1968 season, or even as late as 3-4 months later, Staubach might not have gotten the chance to get his feet wet, and thus demanded a trade. That's because Jerry Rhome had been the third-string QB for the Cowboys, but they dealt him to the Browns in May 1969. Then, Meredith retired just weeks before training camp started.

Given the fact that Wells was already on probation for a 1969 attempted rape conviction, it's surprising that Al Davis didn't make a more concerted effort to develop Dickey, since Wells was eventually lost for good when he was sent to prison for violating that probation two years later.

I agree about Staubach. Once he was guaranteed the backup job with Meredith and Rhome leaving, it was an ideal situation since he was too raw in 1969-70 anyway.

Hate to say it, but I said that Staubach and Dickey had similar statistics in the 1969 preseason. This includes running the ball. The bottom line is that Staubach was given more latitude in running the ball because he was white. I don't know that the coaches at the time necessarily liked a white QB running the ball, but it didn't create the automatic call to move to another position. It has been brought up as a topic by African Americans. The early black QBs that got playing time - James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Doug Williams, Warren Moon - either couldn't run all that well or refrained from doing so.

Looked up Dickey's college stats, Stabler as well. Dickey was a starter all four years at Tennessee State. Stabler must have played some running back as a sophomore, because the regular QB was Steve Sloan. Yet Stabler still rushed for 328 yards. Stabler was the regular QB as a junior and senior, though he only attempted 114 passes as a junior. As a senior he was around 200 attempts, which is about what Dickey averaged. Their stats are somewhat similar.

Joe Gilliam also went to Tennessee State. Based on comparing his stats to Dickey's, I think Dickey deserved a chance as an NFL QB. Dickey was 6'2" and did not have the height issue of Marlin Briscoe. Joe Gilliam had his off the field issues and still got a chance to play, with a good team at that.

As far as Dickey getting more of a chance at WR, he did play there extensively in the 1970 preseason. He just didn't make the team. The Raiders were trying to get to the Super Bowl, and had four guys they could use more. Dickey was behind two All-Pro players as starters. Rod Sherman started for other teams, and caught three post-season TD passes in his career with the Raiders.

With Wells suspended, Dickey did make the team in 1971. Still stuck behind Rod Sherman. Dickey got a couple of starts when Sherman left the team briefly because he wasn't happy with something or other. Scored his only NFL TD in one of them, then got suspended for missing practices.

Like I said, regardless of his attitude, Dickey was probably good enough to deserve a chance. The only thing I can think of similar to the Stabler/Dickey issue is when the Jets came up with Namath and John Huarte in 1965. They still had the prior season's QBs in Dick Wood and Mike Taliaferro. Both of those guys were capable of being pro quarterbacks. But they wound up trading Wood, and Namath started backed up by Taliaferro. Huarte hung around for a long time, but nearly always as third string with various teams.

If anyone is curious to see footage of Dickey, the 1965 Grantland Rice Bowl is on YouTube. Dickey was a sophomore at Tennessee State at the time.

Edit: One thing I should add about Al Davis. Davis liked to accumulate talent and was loath to give it up. I think he would prefer to have a player sit on the taxi squad unused rather than give the player up and have him come back to play against the Raiders. Davis kept Ben Davidson on the taxi squad for two entire seasons at the end of his career. Not trading Lamonica at the end was another instance. There were others.

I saw Dickey play on TV in 1967. He would throw high and wide, not especially accurate.

Jay Z wrote:The bottom line is that Staubach was given more latitude in running the ball because he was white. I don't know that the coaches at the time necessarily liked a white QB running the ball, but it didn't create the automatic call to move to another position. It has been brought up as a topic by African Americans. The early black QBs that got playing time - James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Doug Williams, Warren Moon - either couldn't run all that well or refrained from doing so.

Joe Gilliam also went to Tennessee State. Based on comparing his stats to Dickey's, I think Dickey deserved a chance as an NFL QB. Dickey was 6'2" and did not have the height issue of Marlin Briscoe. Joe Gilliam had his off the field issues and still got a chance to play, with a good team at that.

With Wells suspended, Dickey did make the team in 1971. Still stuck behind Rod Sherman. Dickey got a couple of starts when Sherman left the team briefly because he wasn't happy with something or other. Scored his only NFL TD in one of them, then got suspended for missing practices.

Agree on race being a factor. Briscoe got moved to WR after having a very successful rookie QB season...in Denver! The team had about 30 different starting QBs up to that point. I was reading Sports Illustrated's oversized "QB" book that came out recently, and they had an article on Warren Moon, casting Moon as a sympathetic character because NFL teams weren't interested in him coming out of college. Yeah, race was a factor and Moon went to the CFL, but the fact that we went undrafted netted him millions of dollars in the long run because he came into the NFL as a free agent. Marlin Briscoe was the true sympathetic character...here was a guy who had proven himself on the NFL/AFL level with arguably the worst franchise in either league, and he never got another opportunity to play QB.

Gilliam was awesome. Completely different than the big, polite Harris and Williams. Scrawny, fundamentally unsound, outspoken...not the type of personality you'd expect. Then when he's given the starting job with the ball-control Steelers, he's throwing 50 passes a game. You've got to respect the non-conformity. I love seeing old photos of Gilliam with the Steelers...just a unique moment in time for NFL history.

As for Dickey, I did see his lone NFL TD in the 1971 Eagles highlight film. He faked out 3 guys in a space of 5 yards then loped into the endzone. You can tell the athleticism is off the charts. I can't comment on his passing, but you'd think that some NFL team would have given Dickey a shot...but like you said, Al Davis kept him stashed away on the Raiders.

Evan wrote:Is Stabler the first QB to make the Pro Bowl in the 1970s to pass away? I think the others that come to mind (Namath, Griese, Bradshaw, Pastorini, Hart, Tarkenton, Staubach, Kilmer, Brodie, Gabriel, Manning, Morton, Jones, Fouts, etc.) are still here, thank goodness.

I think so, but strangely enough, he is not the first All Pro QB from the 1970's to pass away. Earl Morrall was the QB on the 1972 AP Team, even though he didn't make the Pro Bowl.

conace21 wrote:

Evan wrote:Is Stabler the first QB to make the Pro Bowl in the 1970s to pass away? I think the others that come to mind (Namath, Griese, Bradshaw, Pastorini, Hart, Tarkenton, Staubach, Kilmer, Brodie, Gabriel, Manning, Morton, Jones, Fouts, etc.) are still here, thank goodness.

I think so, but strangely enough, he is not the first All Pro QB from the 1970's to pass away. Earl Morrall was the QB on the 1972 AP Team, even though he didn't make the Pro Bowl.

I don't think anybody's ever studied the issue, but I would guess that after punters and placekickers, quarterbacks would probably have the longest life spans of any NFL player based on the fact that they take the fewest hits, get the least wear and tear on their bodies, particularly in the area of concussions. A running back gets tackled 20-30 times a game, receiver 10-15, but a QB 5-10 times, usually less than that.

The HOF posted a list prior to 2013 of NFL players who played at 40 or above.
18 QB's including a pair of Raider #16's, Wilson and Blanda.
14 K's including Groza and Ken Strong, who apparently were exclusively kickers at age 40.
8 P
6 OL including two Nessers
1 LS
3 offensive skill positions: Rice, Thorpe, and Bobby Marshall of the Duluth Kelleys
2 DL
2 LB
1 DB

18 of 33 non-specialists who played at 40 were QB's, 54.5%