Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Hail Casares wrote:

Veeshik_ya wrote:

Saban wrote: Another thing, fullback Marion Motley was a terrific blocker and would often flatten defensive rushing linemen. Tough enough getting through Cleveland's offensive line only to run into Motley.

Wasn't Motley Dr. Z's pick for greatest RB ever?

Motley was his pick for his FB on his All-Century team.

Actually, I read someplace that Dr. Z said that Marion Motley was not only the greatest fullback ever, but the greatest player ever.

Saban » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:22 pm
"Actually, I read someplace that Dr. Z said that Marion Motley was not only the greatest fullback ever, but the greatest player ever."

Zimmerman might have quoted what Joe Perry said but, if Zimmerman said it, how much validity could it have?
It could only be a statement based on the words of others.
When Motley played, Paul was between 14 and 21 years of age. Even at his eldest viewing, does a 21-year-old
really have the capacity to judge greatness? The likely answer is "No."
Hey! I saw Sammy Baugh play but I was 11 and all I can remember is that it was cold. A couple of years later,
if I sat in the same place, I could have looked right in Willie Mays' eyes when he caught the Vic Wertz shot
but I wasn't even there.

Saban wrote:

Actually, I read someplace that Dr. Z said that Marion Motley was not only the greatest fullback ever, but the greatest player ever.

I think he may have made some sort of statement to that effect in his 1984 book.

Hail Casares wrote:

Saban wrote:Actually, I read someplace that Dr. Z said that Marion Motley was not only the greatest fullback ever, but the greatest player ever.

I think he may have made some sort of statement to that effect in his 1984 book.

Yes, it's in both editions, 1970 and 1984. The last or next-to-last chapter is titled "Strictly Personal -- the Greatest Player," and it's about Motley.

Zimmerman's statement about Motley being the greatest player of all time is also in Rick Korch's book, 'The 200 Greatest Pro Football Players of All-Time' (1992 or 1993)...in the back of the book there is a section where several historians/experts select their all-time greatest player with a paragraph or two....the late Bob Carroll is among those featured.

And who was Bob's selection?

oldecapecod 11 wrote:And who was Bob's selection?

He chose Don Hutson.

Here are the others from Karch's book:

Rick Korch, author, then managing editor of Pro Football Weekly: Jim Brown
Jim Campbell, former historian for PFHOF: Larry Wilson
Joe Horrigan, research historian PFHOF: Don Hutson
Bob Oates, Los Angeles Times: Dick Butkus
Bill Wallace, New York Times: Lawrence Taylor
David Neft, The Football Encyclopedia: Ernie Nevers
Beau Riffenburgh, T?he Official NFL Encyclopedia: Sammy Baugh
John Steadman, Baltimore Morning News: Marion Motley
Cooper Rollow, Chicago Tribune: Walter Payton
Jack Clary, then-President, PFRA: Jim Brown
Chuck Heaton, Cleveland Plain Dealer: Otto Graham
Mickey Herskowitz, Houston Post; The Golden Age of Pro Football: Sammy Baugh

Oates and Steadman were the only beat writers who didn't pick a player they covered.

Marion Motley hurt his knee in the 1951 training camp and was never the same. The stats show that he slipped considerably in his rushing, but I wonder if his leg problems affected his blocking as well. I noticed that Motley, who was an expert at the old cross body block before 1951, seemed to do most of his blocking standing up after that big knee injury.

In a 1952 regular season game against Detroit, defensive end Jim Doran kept getting to Otto Graham with his pass rush, using some type of circular move (maybe the same move that Larry Brink used in the 1951 title game to get to Graham causing a fumble and a Rams TD (a big play in that game)). Anyway, Motley was replaced by Chick Jagade due to the problem of Doran getting to Graham in that Detroit game(according to a source). Hard to believe that Marion Motley would ever be taken out of a game due to his blocking, or lack of.

It may be a coincidence, but Cleveland lost 3 straight championship games after Motley's knee injury. Of course, there was some bad luck, and maybe some questionable calls, but still.

I pointed out in another post on this thread how Marion Motley still did not have that bad a year in 1952 (a good year for most), despite losing his starting job to Chick Jagade. Like someone once said about boxer Roberto Duran: "He was the greatest boxer and the greatest over the hill boxer." The same may have been said about Marion Motley as a fullback.