Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Citizen wrote:

Jay Z wrote:Didn't Lombardi have a contract when he left the Packers for the Redskins and a nice ownership cut?

Yes, his Packers contract was set to run through 1974, but the team tore it up so he could go to Washington.

Lombardi's attitude was hypocritical, but also reflective of the times. Loyalty in sports was strictly a one-way street then, with players expected (and legally bound in some ways) to stay with one team. Taylor took heat for doing what many players wished they could do -- go where the money was.

Supposedly, Lombardi was one of the more adamant opponents of the NFLPA in the spring of 1970, when they were planning their mini-strike (or whatever it's called). Of course, weeks before training camp, Lombardi suddenly had much more important concerns to deal with.

Saban wrote:Regarding the post about Paul Brown having his final cuts earlier to enable players to catch on with other teams, here is what NFL Commissioner Bert Bell had to say about that after Cleveland's opening day 35 to 10 win in 1950 over the two time NFL Champion Philadelphia Eagles:

"No wonder the Browns are so successful. Look what they do for their players. Paul Brown made his final waivers 10 days before the season was to start and then helped the players that he let go find spots on other teams. Some of the NFL teams held on to their players until they were forced to get down to the limit and those poor guys had no place to go.

That was from page 19 of the Cleveland Browns edition of the "Great Teams, Great Years" book series." Bert Bell also said that "Cleveland is the best football team I have ever seen," following the Browns 35 to 10 victory over the Eagles.

Paul Brown had some baggage, like the rest of us, but he did have some good points. The early waiving of players and helping to find them jobs with other teams may have been another innovation of Paul Brown's.

That was quite a compliment to the Cleveland Browns by Bert Bell when you consider that he was the Commissioner of the NFL, a league that had spent the previous four years doing nothing but downgrading the All-America Conference (AAFC) any way that they possibly could saying things like the worst team in the NFL was better than the best team in the AAFC.

The NFL led people to believe that the All-America Conference (1946-49) was just a minor league compared to the NFL and people believed it. Around 1948, few people believed that Otto Graham was as good or better than Sid Luckman or Bob Waterfield, or Marion Motley was as good as Steve Van Buren.

Was Mac Speedie as good a receiver as Jim Benton? Was Joe Perry as good a running back as Van Buren? Was Bill Willis as good a middle guard as the best in the NFL? If you said yes to these questions before 1950, you probably would have been laughed at. If you said yes after 1950, you would have been taken much more seriously, except for maybe some diehards.

Those guys like Otto Graham, Dante Lavelli, Marion Motley, Mac Speedie, and Bill Willis were probably considered like Steve Bilko or Rocky Nelson, who were a couple of the greatest triple A baseball players ever, but never really made it big in the majors. I should add linebacker Lou Saban, who probably would be a part of this conversation if he kept playing for the Browns after 1949.

Saban wrote:


Those guys like Otto Graham, Dante Lavelli, Marion Motley, Mac Speedie, and Bill Willis were probably considered like Steve Bilko or Rocky Nelson, who were a couple of the greatest triple A baseball players ever, but never really made it big in the majors.

But Bilko made it big on television in the 1950s. (And from what I've read was in fact the source for Phil Silvers' character).

John Grasso wrote:

Saban wrote:


Those guys like Otto Graham, Dante Lavelli, Marion Motley, Mac Speedie, and Bill Willis were probably considered like Steve Bilko or Rocky Nelson, who were a couple of the greatest triple A baseball players ever, but never really made it big in the majors.

But Bilko made it big on television in the 1950s. (And from what I've read was in fact the source for Phil Silvers' character).

Steve Bilko also made it big in the Pacific Coast League in the mid 1950's batting .360 with 55 homers one year and 56 home runs the next year.

As far as Sgt. Bilko goes, he was always doing something to bilk someone or something like that.

As Col. Hall used to say, "What's he up to?"

I think that I may have downgraded what people thought about the accomplishments of baseball players Steve Bilko and Rocky Nelson. They were/are really legends of minor league baseball.

Players like Otto Graham, Lou Groza, Mac Speedie, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Bill Willis, and Frank Gatski really did not become legends until after they played in the NFL. They probably should have been seen that way in their AAFC years (1946-49), but I don't believe that many people did. Lou Saban may also have become legendary as a football player (as well as a coach) if he played in the NFL after 1949 rather than retiring to start a coaching career.

Maybe you could say the same about some of the AFL stars of the early 1960's. Kind of makes you wonder how good players like Abner Haynes, Billy Cannon, Ernie Ladd, Charley Hennigan, Don Floyd, etc. would be considered to be if they had played in the NFL.

Anyway, when they did it in the NFL, players like Graham, Motley, Speedie, Lavelli, Willis, Groza, Gatski, and Joe Perry were finally recognized for the great players that they really were.

The Miami Dolphins, from November 15th 1970 through November 9th 1975 to went 68--12-1 (counting postseason) and were the single greatest team in NFL history during that period.

If not for Clarence Davis they win 3 Super Bowls in row

sheajets wrote:The Miami Dolphins, from November 15th 1970 through November 9th 1975 to went 68--12-1 (counting postseason) and were the single greatest team in NFL history during that period.

If not for Clarence Davis they wil 3 Super Bowls in row

Their two postseason, non-Super Bowl losses both took place in Oakland.

Herschel Walker is one of the most glaring omissions from the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

ChrisBabcock wrote:Herschel Walker is one of the most glaring omissions from the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Because (in part and why "Pro Football" is in red) of his time in the USFL?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... lkHe00.htm

Because (in part and why "Pro Football" is in red) of his time in the USFL?

yep