Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JohnTurney wrote:I just think a MLB and Rushbacker shouldn't be grouped together.

It's weird they announced the LB finalists as a group when they're specifically selecting 6 MLB/ILB and 6 OLB. So they aren't grouped together for the 12 total LB's that will be selected.

Reaser wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:I just think a MLB and Rushbacker shouldn't be grouped together.

It's weird they announced the LB finalists as a group when they're specifically selecting 6 MLB/ILB and 6 OLB. So they aren't grouped together for the 12 total LB's that will be selected.

Didn't know that---glad they will do it that way

JohnTurney wrote:I just think a MLB and Rushbacker shouldn't be grouped together.

Agree 100%. They really are being lazy with the defense and I think it's very disrespectful. If anything, rush backers are most similar to DEs. But they should be separate from ILB/MLB for sure.

Re LT: interesting that the coaches actually have him lower than the gamebooks this time. How about tackles? Guess Butkus will have to be my project, if the data is available at all; I wonder why you have Nobis gamebook stats in full but not Butkus?

It is really hard to get down to 6 OLB; I have these 7 and cannot decide who to leave off.

LT-Bell-Ham-Seau-Hendricks-Brooks-Bednarik

ILB/MLB:

My 6 would be (Although it pains me to leave off George or Nitschke)
Lewis-Butkus-Lambert-Lanier-Schmidt-Singletary

Can we get this guy to join our group?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/281 ... um=twitter

TanksAndSpartans wrote:

NWebster wrote:I wouldn't underrate Bill Hewitt his 1933 season ranks with Len Ford's 1951, Deacon's 1964, Reggie's 1987 and JJ's 2012 as the best DL seasons ever. In 1950 Halas started talk of whether Ed Sprinkle had surpassed Hewitt as the best pass rusher of all time and Halas certainly had seen them all.

I'd be happy to be onboard with this, but is Halas' testimonial the only supporting evidence?

In 1933 the four coach committee slated with selecting league all pros selected him player of the year, yet Halas was one of those four as well. He was claimed to have tackled runners and passers for losses of over 300 yards that season, more than and D Lineman that's been recorded officially. Of the couple games where I have play by plays he makes a ton of plays in the backfield. Consensus all pro 4 times and some all pro recognitions 6 times behind Bruce, Reggie, Gino and Deaf but tied with the likes of Michael Strahan in an era of short careers.

JameisLoseston wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:I just think a MLB and Rushbacker shouldn't be grouped together.

Agree 100%. They really are being lazy with the defense and I think it's very disrespectful. If anything, rush backers are most similar to DEs. But they should be separate from ILB/MLB for sure.

Re LT: interesting that the coaches actually have him lower than the gamebooks this time. How about tackles? Guess Butkus will have to be my project, if the data is available at all; I wonder why you have Nobis gamebook stats in full but not Butkus?

The Bear gamebooks almost never mentioned tacklers not did many of their opponents like the Pack so you can only get accurate numbers for a few games per season. Conversely the Falcons well documented tackles as well as frequent opponents Saints and Rams so far easier.

NWebster wrote:

TanksAndSpartans wrote:

NWebster wrote:I wouldn't underrate Bill Hewitt his 1933 season ranks with Len Ford's 1951, Deacon's 1964, Reggie's 1987 and JJ's 2012 as the best DL seasons ever. In 1950 Halas started talk of whether Ed Sprinkle had surpassed Hewitt as the best pass rusher of all time and Halas certainly had seen them all.

I'd be happy to be onboard with this, but is Halas' testimonial the only supporting evidence?

In 1933 the four coach committee slated with selecting league all pros selected him player of the year, yet Halas was one of those four as well. He was claimed to have tackled runners and passers for losses of over 300 yards that season, more than and D Lineman that's been recorded officially. Of the couple games where I have play by plays he makes a ton of plays in the backfield. Consensus all pro 4 times and some all pro recognitions 6 times behind Bruce, Reggie, Gino and Deaf but tied with the likes of Michael Strahan in an era of short careers.

Thanks - great info - my only issue with counting the All-Pros would be they weren't necessarily for one-side of the ball over the other.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:
Thanks - great info - my only issue with counting the All-Pros would be they weren't necessarily for one-side of the ball over the other.

It also begs the question as to why they couldn't do what they did in 1994 when they picked a two-way team along with the 75th Anniversary
team. There is so little film of 1920s and early 1930s guys and it truly was a different game. SIngle Wing and A-formation is simply
different football than T-formation.

And we've talked of Dilwegs INTs, well, the DEs were what we'd call linebackers now, mostly 7-1-3 (or 7-1-2-1 if you like) defenses, then
moving to the 6-2 and the ends there were 'outside linebacker' with some coverage duties

Mixing these guys is hard to do, and it's often fitting square pegs into round holes.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:

NWebster wrote:

TanksAndSpartans wrote:
I'd be happy to be onboard with this, but is Halas' testimonial the only supporting evidence?

In 1933 the four coach committee slated with selecting league all pros selected him player of the year, yet Halas was one of those four as well. He was claimed to have tackled runners and passers for losses of over 300 yards that season, more than and D Lineman that's been recorded officially. Of the couple games where I have play by plays he makes a ton of plays in the backfield. Consensus all pro 4 times and some all pro recognitions 6 times behind Bruce, Reggie, Gino and Deaf but tied with the likes of Michael Strahan in an era of short careers.

Thanks - great info - my only issue with counting the All-Pros would be they weren't necessarily for one-side of the ball over the other.

So was Mel Hein a good C or LB, Baugh a good QB, S or P, Don Hutson a WR or a DB? Strikes me you'd discount every two way player with this logic. So you discount 2 way player all pros, you aren't convinced by the contemporaneous accounts of famed coaches, and there's little film available. Your haggles with Hewitt would eliminate every player before essentially 1940. I'm ok if you're looking to vote for the 75 th team starting with year 25 and ending in year 100.