Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I saw this chart a few years ago and found it very telling. Comparing quarterback play when they had playoff teams regular season vs post-season play. As you can see, Bart Starr and Terry Bradshaw raised their game the most from their regular season playoff years to their post-season play.

I was arguing with someone about the greatness of Bradshaw today. The other person felt he rode a great defense and running game which were true but Bradshaw was a clutch QB as well, going 14-5 in postseason and 8-2 in championship games. Look at those two championship losses ... in the Miami game for the AFC Championship he got hurt trying to run in for TD. He came back but wasnt himself as the Dolphins built a lead. When he lost to the Raiders he had no backfield with Harrison a plodding runner. Like I told that other person, he could run and could break games open with his arm.

Me and Jack were debating about Kurt Warner in another thread. His first three years starting were like Camelot with the Rams. All his major accolades happened before losing to NE in the SB. After that game, he got hurt and replaced by Bulger ... was replaced by Manning in NY and Leinart in Arizona before taking his job back and winning another NFC Championship. If everyone were to look at his career just from 2002-2009 ... does that seem HOF?

Warner took two franchises that had never been to the Super Bowl, winning once with the Rams and almost pulling off a Super Bowl upset with the Cardinals.

How many other QBs took two franchises to the Super Bowl? Brady, P. Manning, Morton come to mind. I have no qualms about him being in.

The Rams had gone with Ferragamo. They were definitely a cinderella story in 1999.

‘Tarkenton vs Kelly’ is a good idea for a thread.

Who in here actually places them both above Marino if only because they both led their teams to four Super Bowls?


If we also include pre-SB (League Championship Games) in this, could YA Tittle be #1 in some peoples’ books?

In the regular season, he was good enough to beat the '85 Bears. However, in the post-season, he couldn't beat the '85 Patriots - at home - in Miami - and was badly outplayed by the "great" Tony Eason. No defense? He was drafted by a team that was just in the Super Bowl. Do you think David Woodley's passing got them there or was it the Killer B's defense? Woodley took the Dolphins to as many Super Bowls as Marino in far fewer seasons.

Marino had two INT's and a fumble, but others contributed to the defeat as well. Tony Nathan fumbled on Miami's own 18 early in the first quarter that led to an NE FG.

With the score 17-7 NE, and about 1:04 left in the second quarter, Fuad Reveiz missed a 31-yard FG.

Then, with the score 24-14 early in the fourth quarter (and Miami trying to mount a comeback), RB Joe Carter fumbled the ball at the Miami 45. The Pats recovered and scored a TD to make it 31-14 with about eight minutes left (all but putting the game out of reach).

No running game? Another myth. Plenty of examples of teams that won a Super Bowl with far less of a running game than Marino had in Miami. The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent. Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel & Leonard Fournette. Manning won his with Joseph Addai & CJ Anderson as his RBs. Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco. Montana won with Earl Cooper. Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

Brady also won with Corey Dillon once, and he lost when he had one of the best offenses ever. Manning won in 2015 because he had one of the best defenses ever (Marino never had anything like that around him). Montana won because they added three first-round talents in the secondary along with Hacksaw and Fred Dean. As for Mahomes, I won't address him because he is overrated, and the NFL fixes it so bad for the Chiefs. They aren't a real champion.

Kelly and Tarkenton had much better teams than Marino. The Bills were so strong in 1991 that people forget that Bruce Smith missed most of the season. Nobody wanted to play in the Met in December or Rich Stadium in January. It psyched teams out, especially the Rams and Dolphins.

When Brady won it all in 2001, A Smith had more rushing yards that season than any RB that ever played for Marino during their best seasons. Brady had powerful runners in Dillon and Blount and Sony Michel won SBs with the Patriots and Rams. Its not like Brady didnt have talented backs including Fournette with Tampa.

Manning won it all with the combo of Addai/Rhrodes but had a HOF back in James. Imagine Marino having backs like Dillon or James?

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 9:37 pm

In the regular season, he was good enough to beat the '85 Bears. However, in the post-season, he couldn't beat the '85 Patriots - at home - in Miami - and was badly outplayed by the "great" Tony Eason. No defense? He was drafted by a team that was just in the Super Bowl. Do you think David Woodley's passing got them there or was it the Killer B's defense? Woodley took the Dolphins to as many Super Bowls as Marino in far fewer seasons.

Marino had two INT's and a fumble, but others contributed to the defeat as well. Tony Nathan fumbled on Miami's own 18 early in the first quarter that led to an NE FG.

With the score 17-7 NE, and about 1:04 left in the second quarter, Fuad Reveiz missed a 31-yard FG.

Then, with the score 24-14 early in the fourth quarter (and Miami trying to mount a comeback), RB Joe Carter fumbled the ball at the Miami 45. The Pats recovered and scored a TD to make it 31-14 with about eight minutes left (all but putting the game out of reach).

No running game? Another myth. Plenty of examples of teams that won a Super Bowl with far less of a running game than Marino had in Miami. The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent. Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel & Leonard Fournette. Manning won his with Joseph Addai & CJ Anderson as his RBs. Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco. Montana won with Earl Cooper. Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

Brady also won with Corey Dillon once, and he lost when he had one of the best offenses ever. Manning won in 2015 because he had one of the best defenses ever (Marino never had anything like that around him). Montana won because they added three first-round talents in the secondary along with Hacksaw and Fred Dean. As for Mahomes, I won't address him because he is overrated, and the NFL fixes it so bad for the Chiefs. They aren't a real champion.

Amazing how TWO interceptions and a fumble, THREE turnovers, THREE TURNOVERS, gets glossed over to protect Teflon Dan's image as a non-choker in big games.

saturdaysarebetter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2026 12:21 am

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 9:37 pm

In the regular season, he was good enough to beat the '85 Bears. However, in the post-season, he couldn't beat the '85 Patriots - at home - in Miami - and was badly outplayed by the "great" Tony Eason. No defense? He was drafted by a team that was just in the Super Bowl. Do you think David Woodley's passing got them there or was it the Killer B's defense? Woodley took the Dolphins to as many Super Bowls as Marino in far fewer seasons.

Marino had two INT's and a fumble, but others contributed to the defeat as well. Tony Nathan fumbled on Miami's own 18 early in the first quarter that led to an NE FG.

With the score 17-7 NE, and about 1:04 left in the second quarter, Fuad Reveiz missed a 31-yard FG.

Then, with the score 24-14 early in the fourth quarter (and Miami trying to mount a comeback), RB Joe Carter fumbled the ball at the Miami 45. The Pats recovered and scored a TD to make it 31-14 with about eight minutes left (all but putting the game out of reach).

No running game? Another myth. Plenty of examples of teams that won a Super Bowl with far less of a running game than Marino had in Miami. The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent. Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel & Leonard Fournette. Manning won his with Joseph Addai & CJ Anderson as his RBs. Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco. Montana won with Earl Cooper. Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

Brady also won with Corey Dillon once, and he lost when he had one of the best offenses ever. Manning won in 2015 because he had one of the best defenses ever (Marino never had anything like that around him). Montana won because they added three first-round talents in the secondary along with Hacksaw and Fred Dean. As for Mahomes, I won't address him because he is overrated, and the NFL fixes it so bad for the Chiefs. They aren't a real champion.

Amazing how TWO interceptions and a fumble, THREE turnovers, THREE TURNOVERS, gets glossed over to protect Teflon Dan's image as a non-choker in big games.

RB fumbles? Dan’s fault

Missed FG? Dan’s fault

Any non-Dan turnovers? Dan’s fault

Make it make sense

Meanwhile lesser QB’s got carried to rings while doing nothing except avoid turnovers and get carried (Simms, Rypien, Hostetler)

Meanwhile lesser QB’s got carried to rings while doing nothing except avoid turnovers and get carried (Simms, Rypien, Hostetler)

You forgot Brady, who had a top-10 defense practically every year, and got bailed out by the officials on a regular basis.