Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

CSKreager wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2026 1:05 pm No Vinny Testaverde? He teased multiple teams after leaving Tampa

Not in Cleveland. They didn't win in 1994 because of him.

Now that he’s off the Cardinals, how about Kyler Murray?

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2026 6:06 pm

CSKreager wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2026 1:05 pm No Vinny Testaverde? He teased multiple teams after leaving Tampa

Not in Cleveland. They didn't win in 1994 because of him.

Even with the Browns, Testaverde wasnt much of a passer. He didnt really get his footwork or throwing right until Ted Marchibroda became his head coach with the Ravens. Vinny threw the ball better, but the young team couldnt win enough to save Ted's job. Then, with a total team around him in NY and Charlie Weis coaching him, Testeverde finally started leading his team to victories. I felt he could have done better with the Cowboys in 2005 but Parcells went with Bledsoe, which makes sense.

I always felt Steve Grogan was a tease. He had ability and a supporting cast but never could win enough big games for the Patriots. When I started watching pro football around 1978, I felt Grogan was an exciting passer, especially going to Jackson, Morgan and Francis but like Richard Todd, would throw interceptions at the worst times.

Had the Patriots not been upset by the 49ers in 1980, they might have had a chance to win the division and possibly face the Raiders again in postseason but Grogan had a miserable day in Candlestick Park as Bill Walsh won a very big upset in his young coaching career.

Had the Patriots not been upset by the 49ers in 1980, they might have had a chance to win the division and possibly face the Raiders again in postseason but Grogan had a miserable day in Candlestick Park as Bill Walsh won a very big upset in his young coaching career.

A 1980 Raider-Patriot postseason game at Foxboro probably would have been filled with fans hungry for revenge for 1976. Also, if that happened, the league shouldn't have sent Ben Dreith to officiate that.

Also, I wonder if that win and the Saint comeback win eventually encouraged Walsh to stay with the 49ers. At one point in the 1980 season, he seemed discouraged, and didn't know if he could coach there anymore.

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:16 am

Had the Patriots not been upset by the 49ers in 1980, they might have had a chance to win the division and possibly face the Raiders again in postseason but Grogan had a miserable day in Candlestick Park as Bill Walsh won a very big upset in his young coaching career.

A 1980 Raider-Patriot postseason game at Foxboro probably would have been filled with fans hungry for revenge for 1976. Also, if that happened, the league shouldn't have sent Ben Dreith to officiate that.

Also, I wonder if that win and the Saint comeback win eventually encouraged Walsh to stay with the 49ers. At one point in the 1980 season, he seemed discouraged, and didn't know if he could coach there anymore.

In 1980 Dreith was the top ranked referee and officiated two Raiders playoff games (at Cleveland, ands in the Super Bowl against the Eagles).

Gary Najman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:35 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:16 am

Had the Patriots not been upset by the 49ers in 1980, they might have had a chance to win the division and possibly face the Raiders again in postseason but Grogan had a miserable day in Candlestick Park as Bill Walsh won a very big upset in his young coaching career.

A 1980 Raider-Patriot postseason game at Foxboro probably would have been filled with fans hungry for revenge for 1976. Also, if that happened, the league shouldn't have sent Ben Dreith to officiate that.

Also, I wonder if that win and the Saint comeback win eventually encouraged Walsh to stay with the 49ers. At one point in the 1980 season, he seemed discouraged, and didn't know if he could coach there anymore.

In 1980 Dreith was the top ranked referee and officiated two Raiders playoff games (at Cleveland, ands in the Super Bowl against the Eagles).

A referee who had a pro-Raider bias? Must’ve been the exception to what that team would tell you.

CSKreager wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2026 1:05 pm No Vinny Testaverde? He teased multiple teams after leaving Tampa

He teased Tom Jackson as well. On the Week 1 NFL Primetime show in 1989, he called Vinny the QB of the 90's.

For me David Carr was the biggest tease. Everybody see's him as a total bust now but back in real time I had the highest hopes for him and thought he had the it factor to be great. He got off to a great start with some great throws in his debut win over Dallas in 02. Also had some other moments that season where it looked like he had it and was going to be good. He was one of if not the only QB to start every snap for his team that year despite being sacked an NFL record amount of times. Then in early 2004 he had a 4-6 game stretch where he actually played really really well that apparently I'm the only person in the world remembers. Something fell apart through that season and by the end of the year you started to see his true colors. Firing the OC at the start of 05 and purposely tanking that year to get a high draft pick, then changing coaches in 2006 I feel doesn't get nearly enough credit for his downfall. Kubiak did not want to work with him and the 2 of them clashed right from the start. I do think that had he been drafted by a more established and stable team he would have been a fine QB and his development would have had totally different trajectory. He was never going to be a HOF or Super Bowl level guy but I do believe in different circumstances he could have been perfectly fine 8-10 year starter with some playoff wins.

I do think that had he been drafted by a more established and stable team he would have been a fine QB and his development would have had totally different trajectory. He was never going to be a HOF or Super Bowl level guy but I do believe in different circumstances he could have been perfectly fine 8-10 year starter with some playoff wins.

Carr was over-evaluated when he came out. I don't think he was worthy of the #1 overall pick, especially by an expansion team in it's first year. They should have taken Julius Peppers instead.