Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:43 pm

BUF never lost at home in their apex while MIN lost 3 times at home in December

From 1990-93, the Bills played teams at home that were very flawed offensively:

1990: The Dolphins ran the ball 27 times for only 107 yards (less than 4 YPC). Sammie Smith wasn't a RB that you stay up night trying to think up ways to stop. Also, in the AFC Title Game, the Raiders missed Bo (although they couldn't stop the No-Huddle, and that put them behind the 8-ball pretty quick).

1991: By the end of the year, the Chiefs weren't the same team that pounded the Bills at Arrowhead earlier in the year on MNF. A declining Steve DeBerg and Mark Vlasic played horrible at QB, and they only had 77 rushing yards on 24 carries. Also, that was one of Elway's worst offensive supporting casts (and, he had some shaky ones under Daniquated Reeves, who believed in 1920's offensive philosophy).

1992: The Oilers didn't seem to understand that you had to run the ball to win in January. Moon played great to put them way ahead, but they didn't try hard enough to get Lo White involved in that third quarter when they were up 35-17 and got the ball back (they only had 82 yards on 22 carries).

1993: The Raiders didn't really have much of a ground game that year. They did run 35 times, so they made a commitment. However, they only got 110 yards (3.14 YPC). Also, I don't think that Montana had a lot of weapons around him in the first place with the Chiefs. That team went further than they had any business going.

And, besides offensive issues, those teams messed up on special teams (3 missed FG's by Denver's Treadwell in 91, the bad squib kick by Del Greco and the surprise onside early in the third quarter in 92 that allowed the Bills to get back into the game, etc...).

How were those teams on defense?

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Fri Aug 29, 2025 3:26 pm

RichardBak wrote: ↑Thu Aug 28, 2025 9:35 pm I think if they had met in a Super Bowl...they'd both lose.

(Thanks, I needed a smile today!)

Two things:

1. Very off topic (my apologies), but I haven’t seen that laughing emoticon since I stopped following Bill Gorman’s ratings site TV By the Numbers in 2014. I don’t know how old it is, but it looks very early 2000’s.

Looking at the “Smilies” in fact, I see all five of the icons that website used to illustrate how likely a TV program was to be canceled or renewed on Broadcast TV.

And 2. Legit, who coached better in the big game: Levy or Grant?

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 29, 2025 11:46 am True, the Vikings lost divisional games but not championship games at home. They also had Couzzo at QB in the 70' loss and punter Lee in the 71' loss ... Pearson killed them in 75

I’d also argue that the NFC they made it out of was a bit better than the AFC that Buffalo made it out of, but that’s just me.

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 29, 2025 6:43 pm

BUF never lost at home in their apex while MIN lost 3 times at home in December

From 1990-93, the Bills played teams at home that were very flawed offensively:

1990: The Dolphins ran the ball 27 times for only 107 yards (less than 4 YPC).

You're right. It was 3.96 yards per carry. The way the NFL rounds, it was.... 4.0 yards per carry. I stopped reading after this.

How were those teams on defense?

1990 Dolphins: Fourth in points allowed, seventh in yards
1990 Raiders: Seventh in points allowed, fourth in yards

1991 Chiefs: Seventh in points allowed, 13th in yards
1991 Broncos: Third in points allowed, fifth in yards

1992 Oilers: Sixth in points allowed, third in yards

1993 Raiders; 21st in points allowed, ninth in yards
1993 Chiefs: 14th in points allowed, eleventh in yards

You're right. It was 3.96 yards per carry. The way the NFL rounds, it was.... 4.0 yards per carry. I stopped reading after this.

Whatever you say.

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:09 pm

How were those teams on defense?

1990 Dolphins: Fourth in points allowed, seventh in yards
1990 Raiders: Seventh in points allowed, fourth in yards

1991 Chiefs: Seventh in points allowed, 13th in yards
1991 Broncos: Third in points allowed, fifth in yards

1992 Oilers: Sixth in points allowed, third in yards

1993 Raiders; 21st in points allowed, ninth in yards
1993 Chiefs: 14th in points allowed, eleventh in yards

You're right. It was 3.96 yards per carry. The way the NFL rounds, it was.... 4.0 yards per carry. I stopped reading after this.

Whatever you say.

90 Dolphins kind of surprise me being that high up. Must be an anomaly in that era of their team.

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:16 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 30, 2025 8:09 pm

How were those teams on defense?

1990 Dolphins: Fourth in points allowed, seventh in yards
1990 Raiders: Seventh in points allowed, fourth in yards

1991 Chiefs: Seventh in points allowed, 13th in yards
1991 Broncos: Third in points allowed, fifth in yards

1992 Oilers: Sixth in points allowed, third in yards

1993 Raiders; 21st in points allowed, ninth in yards
1993 Chiefs: 14th in points allowed, eleventh in yards

You're right. It was 3.96 yards per carry. The way the NFL rounds, it was.... 4.0 yards per carry. I stopped reading after this.

Whatever you say.

90 Dolphins kind of surprise me being that high up. Must be an anomaly in that era of their team.

And they didn’t even have a last place schedule so it’s not like they had a 4th/5th place cupcake path

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Fri Aug 29, 2025 3:26 pm

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Thu Aug 28, 2025 7:41 pm Tough call ... Levy had more talent to work with but Grant had better defenses ... The Bills and Vikings both lost to more talented teams in the SB. Both teams took advantage of their home field in championship games and also won once on an opposing field.

If their Super Bowls had (hypothetically) been played at home for both of these teams (i.e. on an open air stadium in a cold weather city) do they fare any better?
How much of their success could be attributed to the "home flied advantage?"

RichardBak wrote: ↑Thu Aug 28, 2025 9:35 pm I think if they had met in a Super Bowl...they'd both lose.

(Thanks, I needed a smile today!)

Of the eight hypo-SBs in 'frozen tundra' being offered here either at the Met or Rich, the only one that could produce a different winner would be Giants at Bills, '90, considering just now darn close SBXXV actually was. And that would basically be 50/50 with me, possibly giving NYG the slightest of an edge given they themselves being a cold weather team and it being tough beating them two times in a row.

All seven others produce the same winner. Maybe most of them are a bit closer of a game, but neither being a nail-biter either. Maybe Minny not only keeps it close on the scoreboard vs Pittsburgh as they actually did IRL at Tulane, but keeps the game close in-general. But, either way, the Steelers still win that one anyway as well. No disrespect to those Vikings, but they simply - other than aforementioned SBIX - were never really in any of those games yet alone never having ever had a lead. If Dallas in '75, and especially "good" San Fran in '70, were able to top the Vikes at the Met, then why not Chiefs/Dolphins/Steelers/Raiders?


Its still a tough call, Vikings-vs-Bills. Buffalo at least gave it a game in one of their SB defeats, and led at the half in the second match with Big D. Yes, Minny had a tougher quartet of SB-opponents, but Buffalo's not too shabby at all either. If KC/MIa/Pit/Oak collectively is tougher than NYG/Wash/Dal/Dal which I opine they are, its not by much. Four-straight SBs clearly nothing to ever sneeze at no matter what.

Minny, though, did have an even tougher conference to get out of. Cowboys/Rams/Redskins/Cardinals definitely were tougher obstacles than anything the AFC had to offer '90-thru-'93. Yes with those '93 Oilers, but its no shoe-in at all they getting through Rich had they held on the week before. And, hey, if they couldn't get by KC at home...yes, Montana vs a HC who - all due respect - struggled in the playoffs, but still. That team was in such in-house turmoil going into those playoffs; bubble about to burst. Perhaps it's possibly (just possibly, likely not) a miracle that Houston even gave KC the game they gave them.

A nice feather-in-cap the Bills have, though, are those back-to-back road-convincers at Pit & Mia in '92. Yes, neither team too special, but back-to-back road-convincers over two 11-5 teams (and HC'd by Cowher & Shula) is just that! '92 Bills, to me, are certainly the 2nd-best of that four-straight CCs; they had the 'bite', simply the way they charged into that SB...

Yeah, its tough. Maybe after thinking of it some more, I'd just barely raise up Bud's fist in victory. They did have tougher obstacles in their conference; the game was tougher back then. But early-'90s no slouch era either. Vikings with the overall stronger defense, but Bills' offense more dynamic. Yeah, its tough. I would simply rather sit back and read more of all your great responses as I have already.

1969/70 SB ... I feel the Vikings would have beaten the Chiefs at the Met ... Dawson had a terrible week and the home-field crowd for the Vikings would have been the difference. Could the Chiefs overcome the elements?*

1973/74 SB ... Close game but I believe Miami comes out on top with their defense at the Met. Could the frozen tundra affect their running game? Warfield was injured as well.

1974/75 SB ... I feel the Vikings would have defeated the young Steelers at the Met. The Steelers were better on turf at Tulane Stadium. Close call.

1976/77 SB ... The Raiders still blowout the Vikings at the Met. After getting by the Patriots and Steelers, I still feel they werent going to be denied.

1990/91 SB ... After beating the 49ers, I think the Giants would have lost again in Rich Stadium.

1991/92 SB ... Close game but Washington wins by a FG in Rich Stadium.

1992/93 SB ... Another close game but can Kelly overcome mistakes at home? Can Dallas overcome the crowd and noise? A close Buffalo win because Aikman wasnt that great in bad weather.

1993/94 SB ... Buffalo might have won again in Rich Stadium with Aikman being foggy from a concussion the week before. Dallas had the superior offensive line and team but could they overcome the elements and crowd? Very tough to do.

* Edited ... I know, the Chiefs defense was outstanding at the end of that year but the Vikings always played better at home. Like I said, Dawson had a tough week and it would have been a trying game at the Met ... especially on a potentially frozen turf.

The only head-to-head between both Grant and Levy, of course, was the KC@Min match in '81. Not only was it the season finale, but the Vikings very last game at the old Met before moving indoors the following season. Chiefs 10, Vikings 6. Both HCs could have also met in '78, Levy's KC debut, but did not because the Chiefs finished in 5th place at 2-12 the year before.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 9:23 pm 1969/70 SB ... I feel the Vikings would have beaten the Chiefs at the Met ... Dawson had a terrible week and the home-field crowd for the Vikings would have been the difference. Could the Chiefs overcome the elements?*

1973/74 SB ... Close game but I believe Miami comes out on top with their defense at the Met. Could the frozen tundra affect their running game? Warfield was injured as well.

1974/75 SB ... I feel the Vikings would have defeated the young Steelers at the Met. The Steelers were better on turf at Tulane Stadium. Close call.

1976/77 SB ... The Raiders still blowout the Vikings at the Met. After getting by the Patriots and Steelers, I still feel they werent going to be denied.

1990/91 SB ... After beating the 49ers, I think the Giants would have lost again in Rich Stadium.

1991/92 SB ... Close game but Washington wins by a FG in Rich Stadium.

1992/93 SB ... Another close game but can Kelly overcome mistakes at home? Can Dallas overcome the crowd and noise? A close Buffalo win because Aikman wasnt that great in bad weather.

1993/94 SB ... Buffalo might have won again in Rich Stadium with Aikman being foggy from a concussion the week before. Dallas had the superior offensive line and team but could they overcome the elements and crowd? Very tough to do.

* Edited ... I know, the Chiefs defense was outstanding at the end of that year but the Vikings always played better at home. Like I said, Dawson had a tough week and it would have been a trying game at the Met ... especially on a potentially frozen turf.

Bills beating Dallas both times?? Pretty honest opinion for a Cowboys-fan! I don't know, JMO, its hard to turn those lopsided SB wins on a neutral site into actually Vikings/Bills wins had they, simply, played at home instead. These are some of the greater pro football champs of all-time we're talking of. I think they could have handled things quite as well in the elements.