Why Tom Coughlin is my #1 coach on the ballot

[74_75_78_79_]

Arnsparger is seen by enough as the best DC of all-time. Lebeau is already in, so why not Bill?

There's debate as to whether Dungy and Cowher should even be in the Hall (their inductions opening that 'can of worms'). IMO, each have the edge over Holmgren as a HC, but that extra SB-berth of Holmgren's (making it 3, as many as both combined - Dungy 1, Cowher 2) at least makes a legit case of Holmgren already being in as well.

If Jimmy Johnson is in...yes, Buddy Parker.


As for the topic, OP itself...

The coaching ballot this year is going to be fascinating, with three head coaches with two rings apiece (Coughlin, Shanahan, Seifert) and one who has only one but also brought two franchises to a Super Bowl, with three total appearances (Holmgren). I would pick Clark Shaughnessy as a contributor but he feels off here. Full list: https://www.profootballhof.com/news/202 ... s-of-2025/

In any case, the discussion, right or not, about whether Eli Manning is a 1st ballot HOFer leads me to view Tom Coughlin as the clear cut #1 coaching candidate for the class of 2025. Unlike Shanahan and Seifert, Coughlin had incredible success with a second franchise, albeit his first, in Jacksonville. A head coach's impact is how his team performs, and Coughlin has two of the biggest upsets in NFL history: Jaguars-Broncos 1996 and Super Bowl XLII, both of which had Coughlin's teams as 12.5-point underdogs.

And unlike Shanahan, Seifert and Holmgren, Coughlin's Super Bowl champs were very light on individual talent. Some ways of thinking of it:

Players who would make Canton without a ring: Strahan
MVP ever: none
OPOY ever: none
DPOY ever: Strahan 2001
Pro Bowl in title season: Umenyiora '07, Manning '11, Pierre-Paul '11
1st team AP All Pro in title season: none
1st team AP All Pro ever: Strahan 4x, Umenyiora '05, Snee '08, Tuck '08, Pierre-Paul '11

Insane talent difference compared to Elway/TD/Sharpe/Atwater/Neil, Favre/Reggie/Butler, Montana/Young/Rice/Craig/Watters/Deion, etc.

Thoughts? Your choice?

That's a very solid endorsing point! Had the Giants successfully defended in 2008 as they "should" have (12-4 top-seed this time instead of 10-6 WC, beat Steelers on the road, etc), this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd already be in. 14-2 best-record-in-the-league Jags not making the SB in '99? I don't see that as an underachievement. 13-3 Titans were the deserving AFC representative, Music City Miracle or not. And Rams were the best.

[Brian wolf]

There's no doubt about Dungy's success but I also felt he could have waited for the HOF. I feel his success as an assistant was also taken into account, though he should have won another championship with the Colts team he had. Though people laugh off what Vanderjagt said about his too-nice image, there was also truth to it as some of his players could take him for granted or underestimate him.

Whoever gets the coaching nomination this year, will their case be stronger than a deserving senior, because I wouldnt think so. Contributor as well.

[readjack]

Coaching is a tricky spot to evaluate for the Hall, but after the first tier of obvious candidates, I value a combination of championships and broad success. I'll put Holmgren over Shanahan, for instance, because of what he did in Seattle. He built a second Super Bowl team. That to me is more impressive than Shanahan winning the two titles, even over Holmgren (even considering Holmgren's "let TD score" plan).

Same with Dungy. Yes, he has only one ring, but he built the Buccaneers into a Super Bowl contender even if they won after he left, and then he took a briefly deflated Colts team and turned them into a champion, with a defense that I can say with great pain and honesty beat up my Bears in the only bad-weather Super Bowl.

Cowher doesn't impress me as much, even though like Shanahan, he also beat Holmgren. Though Cowher did in a way build two teams, since the Super Bowl XXX group was completely different from the Super Bowl XL group. And he had success with multiple QBs, going to Super Bowls with both O'Donnell and a 2nd-year Roethlisberger, going to two AFC championship games with Kordell Stewart and going to one postseason with Tommy Maddox.

The non-champ I like even more than Reeves is Schottenheimer. He won wherever he went. He couldn't get teams to the Super Bowl and he has bad home playoff losses, but he built winning programs and like Cowher went to the playoffs with predominantly non-star QBs, especially in KC, where he hit the playoffs with DeBerg, Krieg, Old Montana, Bono and Grbac.

[readjack]

As for the topic, OP itself...

The coaching ballot this year is going to be fascinating, with three head coaches with two rings apiece (Coughlin, Shanahan, Seifert) and one who has only one but also brought two franchises to a Super Bowl, with three total appearances (Holmgren). I would pick Clark Shaughnessy as a contributor but he feels off here. Full list: https://www.profootballhof.com/news/202 ... s-of-2025/

In any case, the discussion, right or not, about whether Eli Manning is a 1st ballot HOFer leads me to view Tom Coughlin as the clear cut #1 coaching candidate for the class of 2025. Unlike Shanahan and Seifert, Coughlin had incredible success with a second franchise, albeit his first, in Jacksonville. A head coach's impact is how his team performs, and Coughlin has two of the biggest upsets in NFL history: Jaguars-Broncos 1996 and Super Bowl XLII, both of which had Coughlin's teams as 12.5-point underdogs.

And unlike Shanahan, Seifert and Holmgren, Coughlin's Super Bowl champs were very light on individual talent. Some ways of thinking of it:

Players who would make Canton without a ring: Strahan
MVP ever: none
OPOY ever: none
DPOY ever: Strahan 2001
Pro Bowl in title season: Umenyiora '07, Manning '11, Pierre-Paul '11
1st team AP All Pro in title season: none
1st team AP All Pro ever: Strahan 4x, Umenyiora '05, Snee '08, Tuck '08, Pierre-Paul '11

Insane talent difference compared to Elway/TD/Sharpe/Atwater/Neil, Favre/Reggie/Butler, Montana/Young/Rice/Craig/Watters/Deion, etc.

Thoughts? Your choice?

That's a very solid endorsing point! Had the Giants successfully defended in 2008 as they "should" have (12-4 top-seed this time instead of 10-6 WC, beat Steelers on the road, etc), this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd already be in. 14-2 best-record-in-the-league Jags not making the SB in '99? I don't see that as an underachievement. 13-3 Titans were the deserving AFC representative, Music City Miracle or not. And Rams were the best.

Exactly! If Eli is debatable, Justin Tuck has zero push and no other member of the '07 or '11 Giants teams stand out, other than Strahan, who would have made the Hall if he'd retired after '06, then you have to say, well, maybe the difference maker for those teams wasn't on the field, but was on the sideline.

Totally agreed about 1999, even if I still think Jacksonville should have knocked out Tennessee at home. Crazy that they went 15-3 with the playoffs but 0-3 against the Titans.

[rewing84]

There's no doubt about Dungy's success but I also felt he could have waited for the HOF. I feel his success as an assistant was also taken into account, though he should have won another championship with the Colts team he had. Though people laugh off what Vanderjagt said about his too-nice image, there was also truth to it as some of his players could take him for granted or underestimate him.

Whoever gets the coaching nomination this year, will their case be stronger than a deserving senior, because I wouldnt think so. Contributor as well.

Depends on who the coaching and senior nominees are