Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:20 pm Was it injuries for Ferguson or Buffalo simply needing a slight upgrade at QB? Or a little of both? And maybe they don't win either hypo-AFCCG anyway for Knox, hate to say, historically always had trouble getting past that round albeit lack of a better QB possibly being the reason.

I can't really argue with Ferguson's mediocre playoff performances, but in theory I don't see Ferguson as really being a hindrance to Buffalo making a Super Bowl. He really wasn't any worse than guys like Ferragamo, Plunkett, Jaworski, Woodley, Thiesmann who were making SBs at the same time.

ChrisBabcock wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 7:15 pm

Does anyone know the circumstances around Knox's departure from Buffalo?

Ralph Wilson lowballed him on a new contract. Seattle offered more.

Knox asked permission to talk to Seattle. Reports were that Knox was not happy with Wilson losing Cousineau and the contract issues with Cribbs and Jerry Butler in 1982. Wilson was probably lowballing a few guys. Bills traded Cousineau rather than sign him to big money (after losing him to Canad a few years earlier).

What was odd is that Knox still had a year on his contract -- which is why he had to ask to talk to Seattle. Knox was said to be concerned that almost 1./3 of his roster was going to be free agents and didn't think Wilson would keep the good ones. That's what was the talk -- FWIW.

Plus, Knox wanted a covered practice facility for bad weather practices. Supposedly was promised by Wilson but it didn't happen. So Wilson was lowballing a lot of things, apparently.

That and also it was written that Wilson was frustrated about playoff losses ... and by 1982 --- not making playoffs probably caused Wilson to think he wanted a change. Knox would stand up to Wilson and Wilson perhaps didn't like being told he was wrong on salaries, facility, that kind of thing.

So there had to be some mutual aspect to this. Knox actually took play calling away from Kat Stephenson in 1982 ... and called plays himself ... like he he basically did in LA and people not pleased with results.

Wilson also resented paying "Knox's guys" older vets brought in at top salaries mostly old Rams but not all ... some of them didn't even contribute much -- but still were making like $200,000.

There were rumors he also talked to the Rams ... but he wouldn't confirm because he didn't want to embarrass anyone at the place(s) he had options. But I think he did meet with Rams. He was also linked to the Lions job ...

Stephenson beat out Tom Catlin for the head job, so Catlain followed Knox. Knox said glowing things about Catlin -- but to no avail. I guess they wanted to go with an offensive guy but between the time Knox left and Stephenson signed, Catlin was no longer interested and took his name out.

Good info John but I don't understand how Ralph Wilson could be upset by close playoff losses, this team hadn't done anything since a winning season in 1975. Maybe he felt he gave Knox enough time but it all goes back to Ferguson. Was he the type of QB that could take them all the way? At least Plunkett and Theismann could step up in the playoffs. Ferragamo lost a WC to Dallas with the Cowboys running down the defense's throat, which led to Jack Reynolds going to SF ...

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:09 pm Good info John but I don't understand how Ralph Wilson could be upset by close playoff losses, this team hadn't done anything since a winning season in 1975. Maybe he felt he gave Knox enough time but it all goes back to Ferguson. Was he the type of QB that could take them all the way? At least Plunkett and Theismann could step up in the playoffs. Ferragamo lost a WC to Dallas with the Cowboys running down the defense's throat, which led to Jack Reynolds going to SF ...

I don't know exactly --- but maybe it was INTs that cost them ... maybe he thought if you are going to run a conservative offense, your QB needs to be mistake-free --- or as close as possible. Maybe the thought more than maybe 1 INT was preventable?

What was odd is that Knox still had a year on his contract -- which is why he had to ask to talk to Seattle.

Oh wow. I did not know that.

Good info John but I don't understand how Ralph Wilson could be upset by close playoff losses, this team hadn't done anything since a winning season in 1975.

This was the same guy that would go on to fire Bill Polian after three straight SB appearances (all losses, but that wasn't his fault).

ChrisBabcock wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:06 pm

What was odd is that Knox still had a year on his contract -- which is why he had to ask to talk to Seattle.

Oh wow. I did not know that.

Yeah, it was a 6 year $1.2 million deal, I think.

Interestingly, Knox was not fired by the Rams --- but Knox saw writing on the wall. Rams talked to Don Coryell and when Knox heard that, he asked to be able to look around and that's when Bills signed him.

Then the Rams signed George Allen. Rosenbloom wanted Allen. Steve Rosenbloom and Klosterman wanted Bill Walsh.

The old man got his way and that was a disaster. He began to spend like no tomorrow, signed Roman Gabriel who was washed. Traded premium picks for Eddie Brown. After Isiah Robertson threw a fit about how Allen was running practice he traded Robertson to the Packers --- with no permission by Klosterman and Rosenbloom. That was the last straw. Rams made sure the trade was not finalized and they fired Allen.

There were several other things, too. But Rams did not want to part with Robertson at that time. But then he started to gripe about money and some other stuff, too and he ended up getting benched for Brudzinki and Robertson would only play on passing downs and then Knox traded for him in 1979 and got a $250,000 a year deal ... (4 year, $2 million .... in that range.

Knox also traded for a retired Phil Olsen. Later got Lawrence McCutcheon and Ron Jessie.

Bills wouldn't pay Joe D so they traded him and replaced him with Dobler. There were others, Phil Villapiano who had a hefty contract.

And as if he didn't learn his lesson Tom Dempsey signed him in 1978. Traded for Bill Simpson who failed a physical in 1979, then came back in 1980 ...

Knox did get some milage out of some of those guys, but others sure didn't work out. Were kind of high-paid backups.

Wilson, was not a spender, so in general, you were right... it was about money. Knox said he was promised a covered facility and didn't get it. Wilson denied making the promise.

I am sure Jeff Miller knows a lot more of these things. Would be interested in his take on the Knox years.

Then the Rams signed George Allen. Rosenbloom wanted Allen. Steve Rosenbloom and Klosterman wanted Bill Walsh.

The old man got his way and that was a disaster. He began to spend like no tomorrow, signed Roman Gabriel who was washed. Traded premium picks for Eddie Brown. After Isiah Robertson threw a fit about how Allen was running practice he traded Robertson to the Packers --- with no permission by Klosterman and Rosenbloom. That was the last straw. Rams made sure the trade was not finalized and they fired Allen.

Didn't know Steve R. and Klosterman wanted Walsh. Interesting. Wonder how much success Walsh would have had with the Rams, though, because I don't think that Frontiere wanted to win as much as Eddie D. did.

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:47 am
I don't think that Frontiere wanted to win as much as Eddie D. did.

That's for sure -- Georgia wanted her money. Winning was secondary. They were very cheap. Even in 1981 when they finally started paying people -- in the 1980s Raiders made a lot more than Rams at similar positions, similar stage in career and similar "honors"

Al Davis, DeBartolo wanted to win and paid for players.