2024 Hall of Very Good Nominations

[rewing84]

appreciate the feedback and info juggernaut

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

"Regarding those already in a Hall of Fame:
We'll also have to discuss whether Flutie or anyone else who is in the Canadian HOF is eligible (in Flutie's case, when his 25 years is up). I would think such a person is not eligible for the HOVG.

As the (a) Hall of Fame is greater than the Hall of Very Good it would seem (J's opinion) that they have already received a greater honor and are therefor ineligible for the HoVG.
In a way the HoVG is to honor those who have been bypassed for the (a) Hall of Fame. Hence the 25 year period out of football which coincides with the Pro Football Hall of Fame's time period when someone ceases to be eligible for regular enshrinement and becomes eligible only for "Senior" recognition."

The CFL Hall of Fame and PFHOF are two completely different halls of fame. In Flutie's case, one could make a HOVG case on his NFL numbers that have nothing to do with his CFL numbers. A lot of these players are in state halls of fame which carry a lot of honor also. So why exclude someone if their numbers are worthy in both leagues? Would Bud Grant be excluded as a coach? There are also certainly some players (Warren Moon, for one) who are in the CFL HOF and the PFHOF. If the PFHOF separates the two, why wouldn't the PFRA? The PFHOF didn't say, "Sorry Bud, but you were already inducted into the CFL HOF years ago and have already been honored." Furthermore, we don't have any "official" endorsements for the CFL HOF, but we do for the PFHOF.

I'm not sure one way or another how I feel about Flutie, but I think if players are going to automatically be knocked out of consideration because they were outstanding in the CFL, I agree that this topic is better discussed with full membership input and decided that way.

[sluggermatt15]

"Regarding those already in a Hall of Fame:
We'll also have to discuss whether Flutie or anyone else who is in the Canadian HOF is eligible (in Flutie's case, when his 25 years is up). I would think such a person is not eligible for the HOVG.

As the (a) Hall of Fame is greater than the Hall of Very Good it would seem (J's opinion) that they have already received a greater honor and are therefor ineligible for the HoVG.
In a way the HoVG is to honor those who have been bypassed for the (a) Hall of Fame. Hence the 25 year period out of football which coincides with the Pro Football Hall of Fame's time period when someone ceases to be eligible for regular enshrinement and becomes eligible only for "Senior" recognition."

The CFL Hall of Fame and PFHOF are two completely different halls of fame. In Flutie's case, one could make a HOVG case on his NFL numbers that have nothing to do with his CFL numbers. A lot of these players are in state halls of fame which carry a lot of honor also. So why exclude someone if their numbers are worthy in both leagues? Would Bud Grant be excluded as a coach? There are also certainly some players (Warren Moon, for one) who are in the CFL HOF and the PFHOF. If the PFHOF separates the two, why wouldn't the PFRA? The PFHOF didn't say, "Sorry Bud, but you were already inducted into the CFL HOF years ago and have already been honored." Furthermore, we don't have any "official" endorsements for the CFL HOF, but we do for the PFHOF.

I'm not sure one way or another how I feel about Flutie, but I think if players are going to automatically be knocked out of consideration because they were outstanding in the CFL, I agree that this topic is better discussed with full membership input and decided that way.

Bud Grant is in both the CFL and Pro Football Halls of Fame as a coach.

I don't disagree with your point that membership in another pro football hall of fame like the CFL's should necessarily exclude one from the Hall of Very Good. Though I think it is egregious to think about nominating an Australian rugby player for the Hall of Very Good when rugby and American football are distinctly different sports. And even Australian 'footballers' or rugby players who never played American professional football. That is laughable.

But let's realistically look at Doug Flutie. If you look at what he did in the NFL, he belongs nowhere near the Hall of Very Good. There are many other QBs who are lightyears ahead of him to be considered.

[JWL]

I remember being on a new forum maybe 20 years ago and the most controversial topic was how the Pro Football Hall of Fame is a joke until Damon Allen gets inducted. After making a dozen or so posts about why Allen does not belong in the PFHOF, I bowed out of being an active member of that forum. People were arguing against me like I was totally out of my mind. I had to read that Allen is a no-brainer for the Hall. I became dumber each time I read such a comment. A couple people were writing about Allen the way we might now write about Tom Brady or Aaron Donald.

Now, I did consider if these people were trolling. I ultimately decided they were serious about Allen. They just happened to be quite delusional.

I randomly checked on that forum maybe a year later. It had gone defunct.

[Bryan]

Ahmad Rashad, WR

Rashad --- the 'nearly perfect receiver" ... maybe not that but skill set and eye test to me have him worth a nomination

When I collected Topps cards as a kid, it seemed like every year I got a Rashad card and every year he had "All Pro" or "Pro Bowl" listed at the top of his card. He was always a top WR who is completely forgotten about for some reason. Kind of like once Alex Karras was on Webster, people forgot how dominant he was in the NFL.

[Bryan]

Tommy Davis
Pat Summerall
Charlie Cowan
Doug Dieken
Jimmy Orr

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Jay Novacek
John Wooten
John Taylor
Kenny Burrough
Ki Aldrich

[Reaser]

Ahmad Rashad, WR

Rashad --- the 'nearly perfect receiver" ... maybe not that but skill set and eye test to me have him worth a nomination

When I collected Topps cards as a kid, it seemed like every year I got a Rashad card and every year he had "All Pro" or "Pro Bowl" listed at the top of his card. He was always a top WR who is completely forgotten about for some reason. Kind of like once Alex Karras was on Webster, people forgot how dominant he was in the NFL.

My first game in High School (Freshman year, obviously) was against Mount Tahoma. Our schools both had the same mascot which became a one-off rivalry thing for schools that otherwise never played eachother.

Walking through their hallway they had a ton of Bobby Moore/Ahmad Rashad stuff. High School All-American. Notable that he was #23 in HS -- I believe I heard him once say it was "his" # first, before his friend, MJ.

[Brian wolf]

Rashad was much better with Kramer than Tarkenton but Kramer also forced the ball to him, which resulted in interceptions. Rashad was somewhat similar to Chris Carter without the TDs of course. People wonder what he might have done had he stayed in St Louis for the Coryell era?

Though a good career, I also like John Gilliam for the HOVG. A home-run deep threat.

Sluggermatt15 was right, based solely on NFL/American football rules play, Flutie doesn't qualify for the HOVG but I also don't see why ALL professional football play(soccer excluded)can't be recognized by the HOVG?

I guess with Flutie, Allen and Ablet Sr recognized by non-american Hall Of Fames, they don't need to be added to the HOVG, but many fans of NFL football don't know alot about these Halls. I never knew how good Allen or Ablet Sr was until I read these forum threads. I believe more people know about the HOVG, than these other Halls Of Fame.

My accepted five nominees ...

George Andrie
Don Doll
Jim David
Bill Arnsparger
Carroll Dale

[Jay Z]

Rashad was much better with Kramer than Tarkenton but Kramer also forced the ball to him, which resulted in interceptions. Rashad was somewhat similar to Chris Carter without the TDs of course. People wonder what he might have done had he stayed in St Louis for the Coryell era?

Though a good career, I also like John Gilliam for the HOVG. A home-run deep threat.

Then you've got Sammy White, who actually had more TD catches than Rashad. If there are two other contemporary players on the same team that are arguably as good, I'm not likely to elevate one of them. Same deal with Dowler in Green Bay, compared to Dale and McGee doesn't separate himself enough.

I'd probably go for Chandler or Jefferson in San Diego or the real wild card of Nat Moore in Miami. Unlike the Viking and Charger receivers, who were helped by their offenses, Moore was hurt by his, and still scored 67 TDs.