Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:54 am Instead of going to the Jets, could Boomer Esiason had revived his career with Wyche in Tampa? He would have needed playmakers though. I doubt he could have motivated the players beyond their ability but they might have won a few more games each season ... Its not that Boomer was bad in NY, its just alot more pressure to succeed and that team didnt have playmakers either ...

1993 he was actually pretty well revived. Made the pro bowl. The offensive line was outstanding. But yea needed a bit more than just Rob Moore on offense. Blair was a bust. Burkett was old and nothing special as a #2 receiver. Johnny Mitchell was a tease

And of course they had the outstanding Terance Mathis right under their noses and never utilized him. That still burns me

Bryan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:09 am I agree this was the sentiment at the time, that Vinny was a 'can't miss' prospect, but in retrospect that is kind of crazy. Testaverde's performance in the Fiesta Bowl was frightening. He basically cost his team the national title. Yet everyone simply brushed that off because Testaverde 'looked like' a #1 pick.

100%. It's weird how people discounted that Fiesta Bowl performance.

But the Bucs' first 20 years or so were chock-full of poor player evaluation decisions. They thought they needed a franchise quarterback, didn't think Steve Young was it (and maybe the supporting cast wasn't good enough for Young to have ever had success, I don't know, but I thought at the time that I'd take my chances with him) and got enamored by a big, strong, guy who, as you said, looked the part.

Throwin_Samoan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:48 pm

Bryan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:09 am I agree this was the sentiment at the time, that Vinny was a 'can't miss' prospect, but in retrospect that is kind of crazy. Testaverde's performance in the Fiesta Bowl was frightening. He basically cost his team the national title. Yet everyone simply brushed that off because Testaverde 'looked like' a #1 pick.

100%. It's weird how people discounted that Fiesta Bowl performance.

But the Bucs' first 20 years or so were chock-full of poor player evaluation decisions. They thought they needed a franchise quarterback, didn't think Steve Young was it (and maybe the supporting cast wasn't good enough for Young to have ever had success, I don't know, but I thought at the time that I'd take my chances with him) and got enamored by a big, strong, guy who, as you said, looked the part.

That's what I have always said.

You have to remember, though, that they had Hugh Culverhouse as owner. He was incompetent times 20.

Sam Wyche was a good coach, not a great coach. He did a swell job of getting the Bengals to the SB one year. He may have had only one other winning season in his career. Maybe one or two more but they were mostly around .500 or worse if I remember right. His career winning percentage probably isn't much different than a guy like Jerry Glanville. No question that the team's situation was far from ideal, but Wyche wasn't a guy who could be expected to churn out a perennial division champion or anything like that. Not knocking him or the question, but we're not talking Joe Gibbs here. I think that's as much of the reason as anything. Wyche probably didn't fare any differently than dozens of coaches we could mention.

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:39 am You have to remember, though, that they had Hugh Culverhouse as owner. He was incompetent times 20.

Oh, I've never forgotten it. I was there.

It wasn't JUST him, as he did handle coach hires (mostly bad, or bizarre), but McKay's hubris and the others who scouted players who thought Booker Reese could play or that Jack Thompson could play or that Brett Moritz was a steal. Culverhouse didn't make all those calls.

He probably was enamored with Vinny, though, and stung by the Jackson bit the year before, so he was probably intent on making good. I figure Ray Perkins (just hired a few months before the draft), who I believe had a lot if not almost total player control in his deal, would have also been on that bandwagon (and anti-Young), even though at Alabama he had never faced Miami with Testaverde.

Throwin_Samoan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:26 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:39 am You have to remember, though, that they had Hugh Culverhouse as owner. He was incompetent times 20.

Oh, I've never forgotten it. I was there.

It wasn't JUST him, as he did handle coach hires (mostly bad, or bizarre), but McKay's hubris and the others who scouted players who thought Booker Reese could play or that Jack Thompson could play or that Brett Moritz was a steal. Culverhouse didn't make all those calls.

He probably was enamored with Vinny, though, and stung by the Jackson bit the year before, so he was probably intent on making good. I figure Ray Perkins (just hired a few months before the draft), who I believe had a lot if not almost total player control in his deal, would have also been on that bandwagon (and anti-Young), even though at Alabama he had never faced Miami with Testaverde.

The Booker Reese saga cost the Bucs a shot at Dan Marino a year later. What a terrible episode (but it was par for the course in Tampa at the time).

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:53 am
The Booker Reese saga cost the Bucs a shot at Dan Marino a year later. What a terrible episode (but it was par for the course in Tampa at the time).

While true, TBF, I'd say the Bucs would not have been smart enough to take Marino in 1983, but lots of other folks weren't, either.

But Reese is really an example of just how badly they evaluated some players in the first 20 years or so of the franchise.

Throwin_Samoan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:26 pm

7DnBrnc53 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:39 am You have to remember, though, that they had Hugh Culverhouse as owner. He was incompetent times 20.

Oh, I've never forgotten it. I was there.

It wasn't JUST him, as he did handle coach hires (mostly bad, or bizarre), but McKay's hubris and the others who scouted players who thought Booker Reese could play or that Jack Thompson could play or that Brett Moritz was a steal. Culverhouse didn't make all those calls.

He probably was enamored with Vinny, though, and stung by the Jackson bit the year before, so he was probably intent on making good. I figure Ray Perkins (just hired a few months before the draft), who I believe had a lot if not almost total player control in his deal, would have also been on that bandwagon (and anti-Young), even though at Alabama he had never faced Miami with Testaverde.

I can't help noticing that someone who calls himself "Throwin_Samoan" doesn't think much of Jack Thompson

rhickok1109 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 12:32 pm I can't help noticing that someone who calls himself "Throwin_Samoan" doesn't think much of Jack Thompson

Definitely whatever the opposite of an homage is.

On another site I namechecked Jerry Golsteyn in my handle. We can laugh about these things now.

With Vrabel out in Nashville, he would be perfect for the Bucs if they fire Bowles, after losing to Philly again in the wild card game.
We will see what develops. If Vrabel goes to TB, could he bring Henry with him?