Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

FWIW ...

Breakdown By Position

Wide Receivers -- 8
Off Linemen -- 6
Linebackers -- 5
Def Backs -- 4
Run Backs -- 3
QBs -- 3 ... Counted Isbell, though he was a throwing RB
Def Linemen -- 3 ... Counted Wistert as well, though he was offense

As John Turney pointed out, interior linemen positions get no love ...

Despite Harold Jackson being ignored again, its interesting that his teammate, Stanley Morgan had six seasons with less than 35 receptions, though he was a great deep threat. You would think he would have more TDs though but despite a long career, only 76 career TDs counting postseason and special teams.

Brian wolf wrote:. Counted Isbell, though he was a throwing RB
.

I don't get the love for Isbell...I get his case, I understand it...but why would he be the guy
that gets more attention than the others that were, for example, in the Final 20
of the Centennial class but didn't move on.

Of those remaining five, Isbell gets the move love, at least that is how I see it, yet
of the five he was the least impressive case.

I get all the positives - honors, stats, team success etc ... and the negatives (did Hutson make him or did he make Hutson?)

But of the 4 others--Wisterts, Dilweg, Lewellen, and Emerson all have positives that are just as strong in terms of most
of that stuff... except that stats are difficult to evaluate for Dilweg and Emerson ...

and none of them have the negatives of Isbell...

Of course if he someone got it, I;d be fine with it...and I think there is no chance this year...but if any SS
did make it, I think Wistert's cases is much stronger. And last year's DIlweg had the stronger case.

I may be missing something but Isbell, to me, would be 5th of the 5 left out three years ago.

JohnTurney wrote:I don't get the love for Isbell...

It can't be the team, because if it was just to support someone from the Packers, Dilweg is the easy choice. Ken's been talking about him since before I joined PFRA. To me, he is a Friedman level snub, not a borderline case at all, yet he dropped off. I can't even say it helps Wistert because a lineman going against a passer on a popular team isn't a great matchup.

JohnTurney wrote:

Brian wolf wrote:. Counted Isbell, though he was a throwing RB
.

I don't get the love for Isbell...I get his case, I understand it...but why would he be the guy
that gets more attention than the others that were, for example, in the Final 20
of the Centennial class but didn't move on.

Of those remaining five, Isbell gets the move love, at least that is how I see it, yet
of the five he was the least impressive case.

I get all the positives - honors, stats, team success etc ... and the negatives (did Hutson make him or did he make Hutson?)

But of the 4 others--Wisterts, Dilweg, Lewellen, and Emerson all have positives that are just as strong in terms of most
of that stuff... except that stats are difficult to evaluate for Dilweg and Emerson ...

and none of them have the negatives of Isbell...

Of course if he someone got it, I;d be fine with it...and I think there is no chance this year...but if any SS
did make it, I think Wistert's cases is much stronger. And last year's DIlweg had the stronger case.

I may be missing something but Isbell, to me, would be 5th of the 5 left out three years ago.

Neither do I John I fully agree with you 100% who would you rather see on this list than isbell

Happy to see Gradishar on the list. Disappointed there is no Larry Grantham. Instead, there is Tommy Nobis and Clay Matthews, neither of whom I believe had stronger careers than Grantham. Looks like more disrespect to the AFL guys who deserve to be there.

Yep, two years in row and only two AFL players ...

Grantham, Grayson, Sweeney, Sestak, Tyrer(sad) Budde, Talamini and Gilchrist still cant get traction.

sluggermatt15 wrote:Happy to see Gradishar on the list. Disappointed there is no Larry Grantham. Instead, there is Tommy Nobis and Clay Matthews, neither of whom I believe had stronger careers than Grantham. Looks like more disrespect to the AFL guys who deserve to be there.

Don't forget mike stratton

rewing84 wrote: Neither do I John I fully agree with you 100% who would you rather see on this list than isbell

Other than Isbell---either Lewellen or Dilweg ... or Ox Emerson.

But all of them on 31 would probably kill Wistert's chances...the cancel-out effect.

Now, Wistert can be compared and contrasted with Isbell and could--if any of the voters
were actually championing a super-senior he might be able to make Final 12.

Wistert was killed in the Centennial Class and voters didn't have the ability or desire
to push back. It may not have made any difference anyway, but it could have.

Anyway ... in my personal ranking it's a too-close-to-call situation but
I rank these guys about the same...Wistert, Emerson, Dilweg and Lewellen but not
in any order. My personal bias is skill players get too much of an advantage
so if I let that play into it I'd put Wistert and Emerson in. Their cases
are similar and really, hard to credibility rip apart.

I have film of Wistert as a cover-defensive tackle. The near T-formation back
motions into the flat and Wistert follows him in man coverage. Wistert is
a stand-up defensive tackle in this particular game...so it could be argued
he was a linebacker, but he is on the LOS.

I will do a post showing it soon. It was interesting to see.

I have other games where he's basically a defensive end/OLber ...
Whatever Belichick saw that were his faults I am not smart enough to see.
He looks pretty good to me, compared to others on the field

John, thanks for the insight on Wistert/Belichick and the Centennial class.

Personally, I don't have Emerson and Lewellen even with the others, although I like them for the HOF. I still go by this:
Wistert would be great, but learned not to get hopes up.