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Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:29 pm
by racepug
JohnTurney wrote:Deion Sanders was right. There needs to be a Hall of Fame within the Hall of Fame.
Well, Deion Sanders certainly isn't somebody who's shy about expressing his opinion, is he? This sort of discussion rather annoys me. It suggests that guys who don't make it in "on the first ballot" don't really deserve to be in the PFHoF.* That's an opinion. Personally, I feel like I have to have faith that the guys in charge of deciding a player's H.o.F. fate know what they're doing. For the most part I feel like they do.

*Apparently some players feel that way as well. I seem to recall seeing a video showing Cris Carter being upset/disappointed that he didn't make into the PFHoF "on the first ballot." To me that's just. . .I just don't understand that mindset. At all.

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:46 pm
by Brian wolf
Despite being 1st Ballot HOF players, Sanders and Revis both had careers that disappointed me. In my case, I just expected more from both than I guess I should have but thats how players can be perceived as the best of the best, that Sanders refers to ...

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:22 pm
by Brian wolf
My Best Of The Best HOF Team ...

Offense

QB -- Montana
HB -- Payton
FB -- Brown
WR -- Warfield
TE -- Casper
OT -- Jones
OG -- Allen
OC -- Stephenson

Defence

DE -- White
DT -- Lilly/Page tied
NT -- Culp
MLB -- Lewis
Edge LB -- Taylor
OLB -- Ham/Brooks tied
FS -- Lott
SS -- Tunnell
CB -- Lane
CB -- Haynes (coverage)

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:19 pm
by JohnTurney
JohnTurney wrote: Posted by Mike Florio on February 4, 2023, 9:30 AM EST

Deion Sanders was right. There needs to be a Hall of Fame within the Hall of Fame.
A portion of Peter King's FMIA
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... andy-reid/

Hall Takes
I met with Deion Sanders, the Colorado coach and fierce Hall of Fame critic, at the Super Bowl about the pro football shrine. He thinks the Hall has gotten watered down in recent years; 45 men have been elected to the Hall in the last four years. “We’ve gotten soft,” he told me. “It’s open house, is it not.”

Our discussion:

Sanders: “What do you call the Hall of Fame? A guy who what?”

Me: A guy who was so great that when you watched him play, you knew he was a Hall of Famer.

Sanders: “He changed the game. That’s what I was told, when I was a shortie coming up.”

Me: Wait a second. Guards don’t change the game.

Sanders: Excuse me?

Me: Guards.

Sanders: “Yes they do.”

Me: No they don’t.

Sanders: “They change the way the game is played. Yes they do. If you have a guard that’s dominant, that changes the way you call your game, that changes the game. Larry Allen changed the game.”

Me: How would you separate the Hall of Famers if you had your choice? Would you really want a wing of the Hall …

Sanders: “Yeah, upper room. You gotta have an upper room.”

Me: How do you decide who’s in it?

Sanders: “Shoot, they decide who’s in it. The game decides who’s in it. You know who changed the game. Like, if you just say OK, you’re gonna put LT [Lawrence Taylor] beside some of the guys that you’ve been putting in the last few years, you just gonna have them sit beside LT like it’s cool? You guys [selectors] can’t feel good about this stuff but you have a quota. You shouldn’t have to meet a quota every year to send guys in. If they ain’t that, they ain’t that. Secondly, how can Devin Hester not be in the Hall of Fame?”

Me: I voted for Hester.

Sanders: “Hester changed the game. When you think about returners of anything, Devin Hester. You kicked, he changed the game, seven years straight. That stuff makes me mad, man. Now it’s like haters involved. Hate shouldn’t be involved in this stuff.”

Me: I don’t think hate is involved.

Sanders: “How can Devin Hester not be in there? Give me anything.”

Me: My opinion is the number of snaps he played.

Sanders: “He’s a returner. Did you want him out there every play? He’s unique. He did something that has never been done before. You couldn’t even get up to go pee. You would hold it on fourth down because of Devin Hester. You would hold it because of Devin Hester. Nobody wanted to kick to him.”

Me: How would you decide the upper room?

Sanders: “You know who should decide? We should decide that. Y’all need to get out the way and let us decide the upper room. Y’all have done your thing and I appreciate that. I appreciate it immensely. You earned a right to be on that committee to vote. The upper room, that should be us. Because when we’re together, we know who ain’t got no business in there.”

Me: What do you do with a guy like [Packers Hall of Fame WR] Don Hutson?

Sanders: “In his era—was he totally dominant?”

Me: Yes. Played in the thirties and forties. Caught three times as many balls as anyone who played in the first 25 years of the league.

Sanders: “He should be in the upper room. Don’t compare eras, because eras are different.”

Me: Who do you think is the greatest quarterback of all time?

Sanders: “Brady.”

Me: Longevity? Or greatness?

Sanders: “Just the will that he had. The will. The way. What he brought to the game. And his fire and his passion. I’ve never heard anybody, a player, say anything negative about how he attacked the game. He’s a winner. He’s a darn winner. Once upon a time for me it was Montana. It was Joe. Shoot, it was Joe. But Brady with the Super Bowl wins eclipsed that.”

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:40 pm
by Bryan
I give Deion credit for his convincing argument regarding Devin Hester. You kicked, he changed the game. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that logic.

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:36 pm
by ChrisBabcock
The fact that he had to ask whether Don Hutson was dominant disqualifies him from being on the "committee to decide on who gets to be in the upper room".

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:31 pm
by JohnTurney
Bryan wrote:I give Deion credit for his convincing argument regarding Devin Hester. You kicked, he changed the game. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that logic.
more brilliance
Me: How do you decide who’s in it?

Sanders: “Shoot, they decide who’s in it. The game decides who’s in it.
They? The game?

Okay. Got it. I think.

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:52 pm
by racepug
ChrisBabcock wrote:The fact that he had to ask whether Don Hutson was dominant disqualifies him from being on the "committee to decide on who gets to be in the upper room".
I agree. Reminds of the time when Lenny Wilkens coached an All-Star team that Shaquille O'Neal was on and Shaq, upon finding out that Lenny Wilkens had been an NBA All-Star in his day, responded with: "You played, Coach?" :roll:

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:54 am
by RichardBak
In my experience, institutional memory is sadly lacking in almost all pro sports franchises. Only when nostalgia is something that can be marketed and monetized do clubs pay more than superficial attention to their past. PR people, who should know better, are embarrassingly clueless. So it doesn't surprise me when players and coaches demonstrate scant knowledge of a game's history or its greatest players. Sic transit gloria.

Re: A Hall of Fame Within the Hall of Fame?

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:03 am
by Zero26
Strongly disagree with Sanders. There's unspoken tiers within every sports HOF. The better HOFers won more awards, accolades, championships etc that's their extra reward. That's what the NFL 100 was for(or supposed to be for that was a mess). The football hall of fame is the more selective Hall of Fame what Sanders wants is a Hall of Fame where only the greatest players ever at each position get in as opposed to the best of their era. The "changed the game" criteria is plain silly a lot of the greatest players ever didn't "change the game". That's so circumstantial(I support Hesters case btw, i'm talking about that criteria).

Football is the selective HOF, it lets in a lot of people because there's a lot of positions. Last year I understand the criticism was understandable but Sanders is beating this drumb every year regardless of the quality of the class. Sanders already has recognition as one of the best defensive players ever but he wants it spelled out and no "GOAT" has ever gotten that. Sanders is acting like less great players being inducted in the HOF is somehow insulting him and he's not insulting the players who get inducted.

Also think of all the hurt feelings this process already cultivates and all the drama the whole "first ballot" talk has caused despite not even being a real honor. Making a formal tier system would make all of that nastiness so much worse.