Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Jay Z wrote:The 1999 Packers were remarkably similar to the 1968 Packers, another inconsistent season from a veteran team that had previously won. Yeah, maybe Phil Bengtson "deserved" more than one season, but to be honest, nothing new was really learned in letting him coach three seasons. Bengtson lacked the leadership skills to be an effective head coach. Frankly, Dan Devine at least had potential in that area and was probably better for the organization in the long run than Bengtson was as head coach.

It seemed like Bengston was perfectly content being just a DC. Not sure if he really wanted to be the HC at GB, much like Bart Starr. I remember reading something about Jacky Lee being the only lend-lease QB in NFL/AFL history; I guess Bengston might be the only lend-lease HC for his time with the 1972 Pats.

Bryan wrote:

Jay Z wrote:The 1999 Packers were remarkably similar to the 1968 Packers, another inconsistent season from a veteran team that had previously won. Yeah, maybe Phil Bengtson "deserved" more than one season, but to be honest, nothing new was really learned in letting him coach three seasons. Bengtson lacked the leadership skills to be an effective head coach. Frankly, Dan Devine at least had potential in that area and was probably better for the organization in the long run than Bengtson was as head coach.

It seemed like Bengston was perfectly content being just a DC. Not sure if he really wanted to be the HC at GB, much like Bart Starr. I remember reading something about Jacky Lee being the only lend-lease QB in NFL/AFL history; I guess Bengston might be the only lend-lease HC for his time with the 1972 Pats.

Rupert Patrick was into the whole idea of "coaching trees" and that coaches should get credit for assistants going on to success with other teams. I disagreed with this notion and still do, because it's the job of a coach to win, not train coaches for other teams.

That being said, I don't think Lombardi was very good at training other coaches. Probably the least respected people in the Packers organization under Lombardi were any assistants other than Bengtson. Lombardi viewed them as glorified gofers. I think Lombardi respected Bengtson because he needed him. Lombardi was an offensive coach and Bengtson ran the defense.

But Lombardi came up under Jim Lee Howell, who gave his assistants a lot of authority. So you had Lombardi and Landry and Allie Sherman that came out of that, because they'd been given a lot of deference already in their assistant roles. But Lombardi wasn't Jim Lee Howell, and didn't have the ability to groom his own staff in the same way.

One thing Bengtson did as head coach was sit in on a lot of offensive meetings. Considering he was supposed to be a defensive coach (and was also GM after Lombardi left) it didn't make a lot of sense. But I suppose he'd seen Lombardi do it and was trying to exert authority and spread his wings and do something different than he'd done as assistant, and Bengtson already ran the defense, so that didn't seem like a step up. The experience I visualize for Bengtson and the other Green Bay assistants that got head jobs (Bill Austin, Norb Hecker, Tom Fears) is that they felt stifled under Lombardi and wanted to exert authority, but had little personal experience in actually wielding that authority because Lombardi didn't allow for that.

Pete Carroll 1994 with the Jets

Had them at 6-5, then the fake spike game happened...the team fell into a familiar Jets tailspin and finished 6-10. For some reason Leon Hess fires Carroll and hires Kotite, who had just checked out on the Eagles losing his last 7 games of the season. He would dispassionately muddle through two season here, leaving practice early to beat traffic and not really caring much one way or the other. Kotite was a combined 4-28 as Jets coach. Add in his last 7 games with Philly Kotite went 4-35 his last 39 games in the NFL

Good call on Carroll ... Didnt he also get notoriety and disfavor from the Jets management for mocking opponents with choking or slash signs using his throat?

At the time when Kotite got replaced for Parcells, I thought other than David Shula, he might have been one of, if not the worst HC of all time. We all know its Hue Jackson now ...

Marty Schottenheimer with Washington in 2001. Sure, they had aging players on defense (Bruce Smith, Darrell Green, Marco Coleman) but also youngsters Champ Bailey and LaVar Arrington, who both made the Pro Bowl. They had one of the top RBs in the league in Stephen Davis, but they had problems at QB, with Jeff George been cut after week 2 and journeyman Tony Banks starting the rest of the way, but leading the Redskins to a 8-3 record in their final 11 games.

Yes, this isn't a "first year HC" case, but WHY did Lovie Smith get fired after just one season with Houston?? Just like why wasn't he given more time with Tampa Bay? The man is a Super Bowl coach! The only HC to lead (Rex Grossman's) Bears to the Big Game since 'Super Bowl Shuffle'!

This is simply an example as to why the Texans have been quite unsuccessful since their 2002 debut, and may not stop struggling as a franchise anytime soon!

Not accusing him of being VINCE, but at least not a couple more years?? This is why the 'Rooney Rule' was implemented, but apparently all for nothing! And when is Bieniemy going to get a HC-shot among SO many others (Brian Flores, etc x 500)?