Super Bowl VI - VIII hypothetical

[Jay Z]

That perfect season in '72 and back-to-back SB wins redeemed his reputation. But man, the guy had the horses to win 2-3 other championships.

1965 really stands out. That was the year that the refs screwed his team (the Don Chandler FG that should have been called no good).

Well, the Colts never should have been given Ed Brown, or whatever the under the table reason was that the 2-11 Steelers decide to release a veteran player in the last week of the season that just so happens to be the exact position that the Colts needed. Brown never should have been a Colt, and the Colts don't get in that playoff without Brown.

[Brian wolf]

Had Matte and the Colts gotten by GB in the 65 playoff, could the defense had stopped the Browns offense ? Warfield was rusty coming back from injury but Jim Brown would have been ready and Boyd would have still had to cover Collins without a lot of help. Could Shula have found a way ?

[RichardBak]

That perfect season in '72 and back-to-back SB wins redeemed his reputation. But man, the guy had the horses to win 2-3 other championships.

1965 really stands out. That was the year that the refs screwed his team (the Don Chandler FG that should have been called no good).

Well, the Colts never should have been given Ed Brown, or whatever the under the table reason was that the 2-11 Steelers decide to release a veteran player in the last week of the season that just so happens to be the exact position that the Colts needed. Brown never should have been a Colt, and the Colts don't get in that playoff without Brown.

I've seen this complaint a couple of times on this board and have never really understood what it's all about. Ed Brown was the Steelers' #3 QB (behind Bill Nelsen and Tommy Wade), reduced to holding for place-kicks. He'd probably thrown 20 passes all year. He was 36 years old, "played-out" (as Pittsburgh papers described him), and absolutely everybody knew he was on his way out---most likely retiring---so the Steelers (who made little secret of planning to dump HC Mike Nixon at season's end) simply got something for him while they still could. NFL rules at the time prohibited teams from making a player swap after the 5th league game, but there was nothing preventing a club from claiming a guy off waivers and promising to throw in a player-to-be-named-later. That's what the Colts did (though I can't recall who Pittsburgh eventually got in the deal). One overlooked part of the story is that George Halas also claimed Brown off waivers---not because the Bears (who were still in contention at the time) needed him but because Halas wanted to keep the Colts from getting him. The entire matter wasn't sorted out until two days before the Colts-Rams game, meaning Brown got in all of one practice with the Colts before game time.

Shula said at the time that Brown was Tom Matte's back-up, not the other way around. This part is often overlooked, as well: Shula was also in need of a punter because the regular (Gilburg??) was questionable, either because of illness or ineffectiveness. Brown wound up sharing punting duties in the game against the Rams. While Brown threw the scoring pass that tied the Colts-Rams game 17-17, it was Matte who almost singlehandedly led the Colts on the game-winning drive that gave Balt a 20-17 win and a spot in the following week's playoff vs GB. Matte didn't complete a single pass vs the Rams (he only attempted 2 or 3) but he ran for 99 yards. In fact, the Colts piled up 200+ yards rushing vs the Rams, who had the league's top-rated run defense. I remember watching the game, fascinated, as it seemed to be just one roll-out, pitchout, or quarterback keeper after another. That was basically the game plan.

There was nothing particularly shady about acquiring Brown. At the time league rules prohibited Brown and taxi squad George Hoffman (also activated for the LA game) from appearing in the postseason. Players had to have been active for the last 2 games of a team's regular season to qualify for postseason play. The Colts held out little hope that owners would change the rule to allow Brown to play vs GB. That took a unanimous vote and they knew there was no way GB and Cleveland were going to OK that so they didn't even try. So the Colts got Brown basically knowing he was a one-and-done. Indeed, the LA game turned out to be the last game of Brown's career.

Matte had been a QB at Ohio State, and I well remember that plastic "peep sheet" he had on his wrist in the playoff vs GB. First time I'd ever seen anything like that. Bobby Boyd, who led the league in interceptions that year, was the back-up QB. He was the only player on the roster with previous QB experience (at Oklahoma). The Colts had some fun with the idea of Boyd possibly leading them to a championship. Boyd was bald and resembled Y.A. Tittle, so during practices that week the Colts used "All the Way with Y.A." as their slogan.

Of course, the real controversy of that wild 1965 season was Chandler's winning FG in OT. Most observers thought it was no good, and the uproar caused the league to have the uprights extended---"Chandler extensions"---the following season. It would've been interesting to see how the Matte-led Colts would've fared in the '65 title game vs Cleveland. Who knows? Having gotten past LA and GB to get to this point, they may well have been one of those "destiny's darlings" kind of teams.

[Jay Z]

Had Matte and the Colts gotten by GB in the 65 playoff, could the defense had stopped the Browns offense ? Warfield was rusty coming back from injury but Jim Brown would have been ready and Boyd would have still had to cover Collins without a lot of help. Could Shula have found a way ?

I think the Colts would have a decent chance in that game simply because the NFL East Division was so weak that year. The interdivision record was 13-1 to the West. 13-1. The Browns cruised to the division title, clinching with 3 games remaining with no other team having a winning record. Still, they gave up more yards than they gained. Now they had done that in 1964 as well, but, looking at the stats, I would say that 1965 Browns defense was a little weaker still, especially considering how bad the East Division was that year.

The Packers had the best defense in the NFL. Colts had a good defense, but not on the level of the Packers. So in that playoff game, Matte and the Colts get some modest gains, but only 3 points. They survived as long as they did due to the Shinnick TD and the Packers missing on some scoring opportunities. Now the Packers didn't run the ball nearly as well against the Colts as they did against the Browns. In fact, for most of the season, the Packers running game was rather poor compared to prior years. But I'd think based on how the Packers ran it down the Browns' throats in the second half, that the Matte led ground attack is going to be gaining more yards and taking more time off the clock than they could against the Packers. They'd need to get points, sure, but they have a lot better chance of that against the Browns. They aren't likely to shut the Browns out, but I give the Colts an excellent chance, given how weak the NFL East was that year.

[SixtiesFan]

Had Matte and the Colts gotten by GB in the 65 playoff, could the defense had stopped the Browns offense ? Warfield was rusty coming back from injury but Jim Brown would have been ready and Boyd would have still had to cover Collins without a lot of help. Could Shula have found a way ?

I saw the Packer-Colt playoff game on TV. It was one of the greatest football games I ever saw.

I think the Colts had a fairly good chance against the Browns. The Colts would have been playing at home. They would have had confidence and momentum from beating the Packers in Green Bay. The Browns, on offense, would have had to do a lot better than they did against the Packers.

Something that is forgotten, the Matte-led Colts beat the Cowboys 35-3 in the Playoff Bowl a week after the NFL title game. The Orange Bowl had a crowd of over 65,000.

[Brian wolf]

Its amazing how comments about Shula and the Dolphins always lead back to Shula and the Colts.
I think everyone realizes that once Csonka and Warfield left that the Dolphins chances at extending their dynasty ended but they had some good teams between 75 - 82. What hurt them alot as well was losing Scott, Anderson and Stanfill to injuries. Mercury Morris and Don Nottingham ran well for the Dolphins and Nat Moore became a dependable target for Griese, with Durial Harris developing but they couldnt overcome the revitalized Colts and Patriots later in the decade.