Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

lastcat3 wrote:I am not sure scoring 25 points in 2 minutes is something the NFL should brag about.

OK Boomer.

Another thing ... Why arent defenders hitting players in the five yard area anymore ?
Do the league and networks mandate that they dont so games can have offensive players just blowing off the line of scrimmage, making easy catches and scoring while keeping games "entertaining" ? The Patriots and Bill Belichick were the last team to mug and hit players off the line of scrimmage and now they dont even do that ... Isnt that what press coverage is supposed to be ?
True physical bump and run coverage ? If I were a HC I would fine my players that didnt get physical with skill positions off the line of scrimmage but if players miss the jam or hit, they could still get burned, so its a fine line. Guess thats why I am typing and not a head coach ... Haha

Why not more bump and run? It's tough to execute.

KC is a top team and what works against other teams might not work against them. Mahomes is big, he can get out of the pocket and run. Kelce is big and they have as much speed as any team I've ever seen. They can do some sick stuff. Like that play in the Super Bowl where Mahomes backed up about 15 yards and threw a rainbow to Hill.

Buffalo played BAD defense in those 13 seconds. It was prevent defense. That has been a disaster for decades. First, they should have kicked off in bounds. KC's long runback is 39 yards, Buffalo does well on kick coverage, kick it high and to the 5 and make them waste 5 seconds returning it to the 25. Maybe the returner takes a chance and tries to let it roll in, maybe it dies and it's a disaster. I take my chances with the kickoff.

Go back and look at those two plays. The Bills rushed four, which was dumb given what else they were doing on defense. Rushing four is no use when the throws are so easy. On the first one the Bills have two DBs 10 yards off the ball on the sidelines, another two 15 yards off the ball in the middle. Then three more deeper, off camera. So Mahomes just pitches it out to Hill 5 yards downfield, then he runs straight ahead into a pile 16 yards down the field. There is absolutely nothing amazing about that play, any team in the league should be able to do that.

For the second one the Bills tightened it up some, 3 players at about 8 yards and 2 more at 11. Then two safeties way, way deep at the 15 or something. Do you think maybe Mahomes is going to try to get the FG when KC needs 3 points to tie? This was a really good throw by Mahomes, a beeline in stride to Kelce 20 yards downfield. But there's no one in Mahomes' face, no one knocks Kelce off the line, no one in the way of the pass. Mahomes doesn't have to get out of the pocket, is stationary. From a pro standpoint, it's a comparatively easy throw. Then Kelce splits the two defenders and gets 10 crucial YAC because the safeties are just too deep. Overall, it was just a too cautious defense by Buffalo on those two plays.

Jay Z wrote:Why not more bump and run? It's tough to execute....

In my experience (granted, not NFL caliber) if you're not playing strict man-to-man (pretty tough against Tyreek Hill, et al) you play a version of zone-under that can effectively provide double coverage while still protecting your under zone.

Let's say you're rushing 5 and playing a four under zone with two free safeties in man type coverage. You are facing one particularly tough receiver (Ty Hill) and he is on your side of the field. So, as Left Linebacker (Sam) I lined up over the problematic receiver and, on the snap, gave him a good solid chuck and tried to ride him (with that maintained chuck) the five yards I was allowed (keeping in constant contact and dragging on him to slow him down). When he finally eluded me and made it past five yards I just released him and fell back into my zone, watching for crosses and underneath routes.

Then the safety behind me picked up the receiver and covered him man-to-man.
I also stayed underneath to force the QB to throw over me and disrupt the passers vision.

It was an effective way to:
Hit a player at the line and make getting out into the pattern difficult and on time, impossible.
Provide a limited form of a double team because even though the LB released the receiver he was still "undered and overed".

I don't see this very simple bump-and-release strategy in the NFL... maybe they have other uses for their linebackers... but it worked damn good on the sandlot, where teams often had a single "star" receiver and some guys.

Brian wolf wrote:I agree lastcat3 ... the most ridiculous last 13 seconds of a game I have ever seen. Why not just mug and hold the receivers at the line of scrimmage ? Yeah, you have a 5yrd penalty but at least it runs time off the clock ...

I thought the exact same thing. What the Bills did on defense was inexcusable, like another motor city miracle type choke. The 2nd pass to Kelce was Kelce lining up close to the OL and getting a free release, running straight down the middle of the field with no one picking him up, and Mahomes throwing him a pass in a straight line with no one contesting the reception. The Bills gifted KC 25 yards in field position in about 5 seconds.

I thought what you thought. The Chiefs had 3 TOs, so the LAST thing you wanted was to allow easy completions in the middle of the field. Force Mahomes to throw to the sidelines or at least force him to hold onto the ball for more than 2 seconds. Mug the WRs at the LOS, because even a penalty will take time off the clock. Its like having a 3 point lead in bball and fouling to give up 2 shots. The lack of aggression and the 'prevent' defense should never be used when the other team only needs a FG. Come on.

Jay Z wrote:Why not more bump and run? It's tough to execute.

KC is a top team and what works against other teams might not work against them. Mahomes is big, he can get out of the pocket and run. Kelce is big and they have as much speed as any team I've ever seen. They can do some sick stuff. Like that play in the Super Bowl where Mahomes backed up about 15 yards and threw a rainbow to Hill.

Buffalo played BAD defense in those 13 seconds. It was prevent defense. That has been a disaster for decades. First, they should have kicked off in bounds. KC's long runback is 39 yards, Buffalo does well on kick coverage, kick it high and to the 5 and make them waste 5 seconds returning it to the 25. Maybe the returner takes a chance and tries to let it roll in, maybe it dies and it's a disaster. I take my chances with the kickoff.

Go back and look at those two plays. The Bills rushed four, which was dumb given what else they were doing on defense. Rushing four is no use when the throws are so easy. On the first one the Bills have two DBs 10 yards off the ball on the sidelines, another two 15 yards off the ball in the middle. Then three more deeper, off camera. So Mahomes just pitches it out to Hill 5 yards downfield, then he runs straight ahead into a pile 16 yards down the field. There is absolutely nothing amazing about that play, any team in the league should be able to do that.

For the second one the Bills tightened it up some, 3 players at about 8 yards and 2 more at 11. Then two safeties way, way deep at the 15 or something. Do you think maybe Mahomes is going to try to get the FG when KC needs 3 points to tie? This was a really good throw by Mahomes, a beeline in stride to Kelce 20 yards downfield. But there's no one in Mahomes' face, no one knocks Kelce off the line, no one in the way of the pass. Mahomes doesn't have to get out of the pocket, is stationary. From a pro standpoint, it's a comparatively easy throw. Then Kelce splits the two defenders and gets 10 crucial YAC because the safeties are just too deep. Overall, it was just a too cautious defense by Buffalo on those two plays.

I think this is just an indication that there is a real talent issue on the defensive side of the ball these days. There just simply aren't enough good defensive players to cover the rosters of all the teams in the league. Perhaps there never was but it used to be the best defensive players would be spread around 12 to 14 teams where as now since all the teams are limited on the amount of money they can spend (and they tend to spend more on offense) all those good defensive players are spread around the entire league. Yes prevent defense has always been an issue. However it used to be that it would take two minutes for even the best offensive teams to move the ball downfield to get into scoring position. Now it just takes them mere seconds without the need to even throw a bomb downfield. When it gets to the point that teams can move the distance of the field in seconds in a divisional playoff game when two of the better teams in the league are playing then something needs to be done. I'm sure even many of the casual fans would look at the current state of things and think that it is just getting too crazy.

racepug wrote:Absolutely spectacular. Three games won by the road team on last-second kicks and in the 4th the home team drives 50-some yards in 10 seconds to a tying FG at the end of regulation to send the game to O.T. after 25 points, combined, in the last 1:54. Absolutely unbelievable. I'm not sure I'll ever see another playoff round like this in the N.F.L. for as long as I live. Simply astounding. This weekend is sure to go down in N.F.L. lore, without a doubt.

How did Steve Sabol put it? "It was fiercely fought but frightfully flawed"? That sounds about right for all of the games. At least the KC-Buffalo game had the excellence of Mahomes and Josh Allen.

TEN-CIN = Titans played bad. Vrabel made bad decisions. The Titans best RB carried the ball 4 times all game. Bengals won despite blocking the Titans DLine 1 out of every 3 plays. Very enjoyable game, but not necessarily great.

GB-SF = after the first drive, seemed like neither team wanted to be in the cold weather. The Packers ST snafus didn't cost them initially because the Niners kept dropping passes and making dumb plays. The Packers out-mistaked the Niners in the end, and the Niners won a game which neither team seemed interested to win.

LAR-TB = The Rams were up 27-3 in the 2nd half despite Cam Akers somehow fumbling the ball at the 1 at the end of the first half. Brady and the Bucs weren't particularly sharp (3 of 14 on 3rd downs? Yuck), but the Rams kept screwing up. Stafford whiffing on a snap, Kupp fumbling, Akers fumbling again. It was a comedy of errors. The saving grace was that the Rams lead was big enough that TB could only tie the game at 27, so the Rams could win on a late FG.

BUF-KC = I'll need some time to decompress after this one. The QB play was spectacular. It was a great game. I'll have to watch it again to determine its historical placement. It felt like the Panthers-Patriots Super Bowl at the end with both defenses gassed and neither team stopping each other.

Bryan wrote:TEN-CIN = Titans played bad. Vrabel made bad decisions. The Titans best RB carried the ball 4 times all game. Bengals won despite blocking the Titans DLine 1 out of every 3 plays. Very enjoyable game, but not necessarily great.

Why do you say this? Was Henry not healthy? I didn't see either day game, but got to watch both night games in their entirety.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:

Bryan wrote:TEN-CIN = Titans played bad. Vrabel made bad decisions. The Titans best RB carried the ball 4 times all game. Bengals won despite blocking the Titans DLine 1 out of every 3 plays. Very enjoyable game, but not necessarily great.

Why do you say this? Was Henry not healthy? I didn't see either day game, but got to watch both night games in their entirety.

Henry was not healthy. He had no burst. He was routinely stacked up in short yardage situations. The Titans spent the entire game running Henry on 1st down and then being stuck in 2nd and 8 or 2nd and 7. When Foreman was finally allowed to carry the ball, he looked 100X better than Henry. His long run set the Titans up to take the lead, but then Tannehill had his next pass deflected and INT'd by Mike Hilton...and Vrabel never put Foreman back in the game. It was ridiculous. Foreman still ended up as the leading rusher despite 16 fewer carries than Henry.

Barring a big KO return, the only other way the Bills lose is the way they did with 2 long pass plays by the Chiefs before the tying FG,
I don't understand why the Bills did not do a long squib kickoff with 14 seconds left.
It either would have used at least 3-4 second minimum for the Chiefs to get near the 25 on a return, leaving them with 10 or less seconds left.
or, if KC does not advance the squib KO and falls on it to kill the clock they would have had to start the drive from the 5, 10 or 15.

Percentage-wise, the deep squib KO would have to have a higher victory success rate than the actual game result.
I am not a Buffalo fan, but I feel deeply for them today because of this missed opportunity to end that game with a win.