Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

The 1992 Bills were feast or famine. They started 4-0 with three blowouts and... a shootout victory over the 49ers in San Francisco. But they were also blown out in two losses to future playoff opponents Miami and Houston, had a decisive loss vs the Raiders, and had two close losses to lousy teams.
With regards to the Charles Haley pass rush, Jim Kelly dropped back to pass 11 times before he was injured. He was sacked twice, by Thomas Everett and Haley, and hit on all three of his incomplete passes. Kenny Gant and Tony Tolbert hit him on the two interceptions, and Kenny Norton landed on Kelly's knee for the third incompletion, knocking him out of the game.

Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

Also in fairness to Neil, the Steelers weren't producing Swann or Stallworth out of their 90s receivers, though Mills and Thigpen were tough by the time he left the team. Their best receiver could have arguably been their 290 lb TE Green and the teams special teams made playoff mistakes as well. Cowher liked to run the ball and may have gotten predictable but the passing game should have benefitted but that second half of 1995/96 SB let Steelers fans know that a change at QB was time, unfortunately it didnt get much better with Kordell Stewart. Part of me always wonders if Mike Tomczak could have stepped in and gotten it done but he was no Jim McMahon.

Brian wolf wrote:Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

Also in fairness to Neil, the Steelers weren't producing Swann or Stallworth out of their 90s receivers, though Mills and Thigpen were tough by the time he left the team. Their best receiver could have arguably been their 290 lb TE Green and the teams special teams made playoff mistakes as well. Cowher liked to run the ball and may have gotten predictable but the passing game should have benefitted but that second half of 1995/96 SB let Steelers fans know that a change at QB was time, unfortunately it didnt get much better with Kordell Stewart. Part of me always wonders if Mike Tomczak could have stepped in and gotten it done but he was no Jim McMahon.

Neil had enough of a WR core. Early on, he played conservative. He wouldn't put the ball up there to give his WRs the opportunities to jump up and make the big catches; made a lot of 'safe' throws. It was an issue as recently as that early Thursday Night upset at home to Cincy. But he did get better - that game at Chicago the example that sticks out; rematch at Cincy too.

As historically great an OC Ron Ehrhardt was, I feel he could have been more creative in SBXXX, especially considering the opponent; pull out all stops! Especially with Slash at disposal in that very first, and only, year he took the league by surprise with his multiple play-making abilities.

Yes, this was Charles Haley and that Dallas pass-rush we're talking of, but Neil still had himself a fine OL and should have had a bit more faith in them; not rushing throws which he did in that game. Just take another breath or two and Corey Holliday is wide open for a TD bomb to put the 'Burgh up, 24-20! Yes, perhaps the wrong route was run by Hastings, but he simply shouldn't have rushed it.

Maybe he was the 'best' Steeler QB between Terry and Ben for what its worth, played with a lot of heart and then some. It always began with the D and run-game, but he also played a part in the playoff runs and leading them to that very SB. However, after that game he was elsewhere and never quite recovered. Tomczak was never the answer. Had heart as well and did have his moments, but simply a good temporary backup. Nothing more, nothing less.

Brian wolf wrote:Good call but wasnt the Giants-Bills SB a week after the Championship games ? The Bills may have needed another week for their backs to heal from all the pats after the Raider game ...

Yes. So was the Bucs/Raiders Super Bowl. There were a few others played a week after Championships. Indeed, the extra week has likely benefited some teams in terms of injuries and preparation.

Brian wolf wrote:Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

O'Donnell was so robotic. One thing would go slightly off-kilter, and the whole machine went haywire. I preferred Bubby Brister, who even though he wasn't any good, he would at least make some big plays and the offense would score. Brister didn't have great numbers in the 89 playoffs, but he made some plays and the Steelers pulled off a huge upset and nearly pulled off another one a week later. Compare that to O'Donnell, who could throw 50+ times and produce 13 points.

It was a shame that the Steelers lost to Dallas in that Super Bowl. I remember Dallas completed a long pass to Deion early in the game, Irvin got away with multiple pushoffs on a TD drive, but the rest of the game was dominated by Pittsburgh's defense. The Steelers even had success with Bam Morris, but O'Donnell simply was too inconsistent. His postseason career reminds me of Pat Haden's...another guy who was surrounded by talent but had a penchant for not making plays.

Brian wolf wrote:Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

Also in fairness to Neil, the Steelers weren't producing Swann or Stallworth out of their 90s receivers, though Mills and Thigpen were tough by the time he left the team. Their best receiver could have arguably been their 290 lb TE Green and the teams special teams made playoff mistakes as well. Cowher liked to run the ball and may have gotten predictable but the passing game should have benefitted but that second half of 1995/96 SB let Steelers fans know that a change at QB was time, unfortunately it didnt get much better with Kordell Stewart. Part of me always wonders if Mike Tomczak could have stepped in and gotten it done but he was no Jim McMahon.

I think it’s a pretty big stretch to call O’Donnell one of the worst postseason QB’s of all time. There's ’s a huge gap between him, and Craig Morton.

He didn’t play well vs Buffalo in the 1992 playoffs, but neither did Dan Marino a week later. He performed very well in his next two playoffs starts (the 1993 OT loss to KC and 1994 divisional playoff game vs Cleveland.)

In the 1995 postseason, he was very good against Buffalo. His passer rating is mediocre, but Pittsburgh moved the ball, scoring on 5 of 7 first half possessions (one of which was a short FG drive after a turnover on downs.) O’Donnell had two interceptions in the 2nd half, but one of them bounced off Kordell Stewart’s hands.

The next week, against Indianapolis, he was just OK throughout the game, but led the late drive for the go-ahead touchdown, including a key completion on 4th and 9.

O’Donnell’s worst game was definitely the Super Bowl. He usually gets ripped for the interceptions to Larry Brown, but he was overthrowing and underthrowing his receivers all day. The wideouts were leaping for catches, stopping to catch the ball instead of catching it in stride, and going low for catches. That really was unlike O’Donnell.

Bryan wrote:

Brian wolf wrote:Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

O'Donnell was so robotic. One thing would go slightly off-kilter, and the whole machine went haywire. I preferred Bubby Brister, who even though he wasn't any good, he would at least make some big plays and the offense would score. Brister didn't have great numbers in the 89 playoffs, but he made some plays and the Steelers pulled off a huge upset and nearly pulled off another one a week later. Compare that to O'Donnell, who could throw 50+ times and produce 13 points.

It was a shame that the Steelers lost to Dallas in that Super Bowl. I remember Dallas completed a long pass to Deion early in the game, Irvin got away with multiple pushoffs on a TD drive, but the rest of the game was dominated by Pittsburgh's defense. The Steelers even had success with Bam Morris, but O'Donnell simply was too inconsistent. His postseason career reminds me of Pat Haden's...another guy who was surrounded by talent but had a penchant for not making plays.

conace21 wrote:

Brian wolf wrote:Speaking of the Steelers, and I may be overstepping my bounds here but O Donnell may have been one of the worst postseason QBs ever, considering the talent on that 91-95 team. Yes, he won an AFC Championship but his mistakes cost the Steelers in the 92/93 playoff loss at home to Buffalo. He played pretty well against KC in 93/94 but learned the hard way that you can NEVER leave Joe Montana in a game without losing it and the Steelers had their chances to bury them. People still can't believe the Steelers produced only 13 points against the Chargers at home in that 94/95 AFC Championship loss but in fairness, the Chargers were better than people realized.

Also in fairness to Neil, the Steelers weren't producing Swann or Stallworth out of their 90s receivers, though Mills and Thigpen were tough by the time he left the team. Their best receiver could have arguably been their 290 lb TE Green and the teams special teams made playoff mistakes as well. Cowher liked to run the ball and may have gotten predictable but the passing game should have benefitted but that second half of 1995/96 SB let Steelers fans know that a change at QB was time, unfortunately it didnt get much better with Kordell Stewart. Part of me always wonders if Mike Tomczak could have stepped in and gotten it done but he was no Jim McMahon.

I think it’s a pretty big stretch to call O’Donnell one of the worst postseason QB’s of all time. There's ’s a huge gap between him, and Craig Morton.

He didn’t play well vs Buffalo in the 1992 playoffs, but neither did Dan Marino a week later. He performed very well in his next two playoffs starts (the 1993 OT loss to KC and 1994 divisional playoff game vs Cleveland.)

In the 1995 postseason, he was very good against Buffalo. His passer rating is mediocre, but Pittsburgh moved the ball, scoring on 5 of 7 first half possessions (one of which was a short FG drive after a turnover on downs.) O’Donnell had two interceptions in the 2nd half, but one of them bounced off Kordell Stewart’s hands.

The next week, against Indianapolis, he was just OK throughout the game, but led the late drive for the go-ahead touchdown, including a key completion on 4th and 9.

O’Donnell’s worst game was definitely the Super Bowl. He usually gets ripped for the interceptions to Larry Brown, but he was overthrowing and underthrowing his receivers all day. The wideouts were leaping for catches, stopping to catch the ball instead of catching it in stride, and going low for catches. That really was unlike O’Donnell.

My very first impression of Pat Haden was that he was an elite QB. A book I ordered from the book club, I believe, in 4th or 5th grade. It had Bert Jones on the cover. It was chapters on different QBs including, of course, Bert. Also included were Craig Morton, JIm Plunkett, and also Pat Haden whom I specifically remember reading about he competing with Harris and a young Jaws and also being a Rhodes Scholar.

Simply from the vibes I got from football fans in-general (and yes I was quite young at the time), it seemed he was regarded well enough/popular. Perhaps it was his star-status from USC that carried over into the NFL - and here he was now playing for the Rams. I do know he was injured quite a bit but not before having his moments pre-Ferragamo. Not being asked to do too much, he could have potentially been a Bob Griese-type. Going to the UK, I guess, did hurt his draft status also.

I, at heart, liked Bubby better than Neil O. I would have liked to have seen him still onboard further on into the Cowher Era. But notice I said, "at heart". Same applies to most Steeler-fans. He was a fan-favorite; and how can you historically admire the '89 Steelers and NOT admire him as well! He was a gamer, simply had that true 'Steeler' aura to him! And later in Denver, '98, the excellent 4-0 backup duty for John en route to that other title. But he did have his inconsistencies. Sadly, he wasn't going to ever lead us to a Lombardi either.

Technically, mechanics-wise, Neil O seemed to have it over Brister. That almost-comeback vs the G-men, his "coming-out"-party, on MNF in '91 is when he first caught my attention. "Robotic"? Guess I can see where it's coming from (automatically throwing to where he may have thought Hastings was going to be instead of giving it a sec/not seeing Holliday, an example). 54 pass-attempts, 300+yards, no INTs, but just 13 pts vs SD a bit sickening. Worst Steeler-memory for me and then seeing that stat right after the game just rammed the dagger in some more! I definitely wouldn't call him "worst playoff QB" either though. He DID have January moments as have been already mentioned.


Anyways, all the way back to the very original subject...in the '92 regular season Power Rankings thread here on this site, I did place Big D at #1, SF at #2. Despite the Forty Niners being a premiere team the last decade-plus, and only two years removed from almost three-peating, new young Dallas simply had the swagger; and now a 'missing-link' vet in Haley to guide them to the top!

As great as Young was looking and they finishing 14-2 (sweeping Saints), SF didn't have Joe anymore along with no longer having some other key members of those SB teams. That assisted in my placing Dallas over them after that regular season as well as me, back then, feeling they were better in real-time. Beating them by more than a TD didn't surprise me. But I am surprised that JImmy just said what he said. He was real, real confident in his own team (understatement)! He may have just been saying it; HOF-induction, perhaps, humbling him, lol.

It is interesting to think about some of the worst QBs in postseason history, and Morton is certainly one of those, though he still had more Conference championships than O'Donnell.
His worst playoff games were the 69 divisional against Cleveland, the San Francisco game following the 1972 season and of course two horrendous SBs but he had a bad arm/elbow in SB V and his offensive line was terrible in the 77/78 Denver-Dallas game. With bad legs he didnt play well in the 78/79 and 79/80 playoff losses to the Steelers and Oilers but those teams had outstanding defenses as well. I would still take his victories over Pittsburgh and Oakland in 77/78 over anything O'Donnell did however ...

He wasnt the only QB who stunk in postseason however. Fran Tarkenton and Jim Kelly won seven conference championships between them but both stunk in three SBs a piece, with Kelly also having a bad 1988/89 AFC Championship game ... Warren Moon and YA Tittle had bad postseason games, along with Dan Fouts and George Blanda. All HOF players, which shows even the best falter at times, which other QBs like Favre, Young and Rodgers, know all too well. Meanwhile, Plunkett and Eli Manning excelled in postseason but may not ever make the HOF ...

The rambling will stop ... haha

I think the worst postseason QBs from a talent (lack of talent?) standpoint would be Joe Webb as a losing QB and Gifford Nielsen as a winning QB. Neither guy could throw a pass. Webb was a WR who has to pull "Ed Rutkowski duty" in the postseason for the Vikings. Nielsen actually defeated the 1979 Chargers for the Oilers, a game in which he threw one decent pass (which ended up being Mike Renfro's weaving TD).

How the hell did Bob Avellini or Christian Ponder QB playoff games ? ... haha