Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Continental: Don Jonas
Atlantic Coast: Don Jonas

NFL: Sammy Baugh
AFL: Lance Alworth
AAFC: Marion Motley
USFL: Herschel Walker
CFL: Doug Flutie
Arena: Barry Wagner
AAF: Trent Richardson
XFL 1.0: Tommy Maddox

I had to look up Barry Wagner, that's a great pick. Scored on over a fourth of his catches and over a third of his rushes, and even played both ways very well his whole career. What a great player. I love discovering unique talents like this.

I can't believe TRich went undrafted in the XFL 2.0. How did that happen? He's not a locker room distraction, is he? Certainly isn't too popular for his own good, like Tebow was. Definitely good enough to play in the league, since either he or Gilbert was the best AAF player. I don't get it at all.

JameisLoseston wrote:I had to look up Barry Wagner, that's a great pick. Scored on over a fourth of his catches and over a third of his rushes, and even played both ways very well his whole career. What a great player. I love discovering unique talents like this.

Those were the glory years of the AFL. Before they went to NBC and over time got away from the ironman. The days with Barry Wagner, Stevie Thomas, Hunkie Cooper, were great. When I went to Phoenix for JUCO ball it was interesting that I saw more people wearing #14 Rattlers jerseys (Cooper) than I ever saw Cardinals jerseys when I was out and about Phoenix, Glendale, Scottsdale, Tempe, etc.

I'm sorry, perhaps it's my personal prejudice but I wouldn't vote for Lawrence Phillips for anything positive.
The guy was a total disaster, personality-wise.

He has my sympathy... but not my support (for MVP).

JameisLoseston wrote:Great thinking on WLAF/NFLE; I forgot that league existed for a moment. It's really hard to pick a QB as best, because there was really a lot of solid QB play in that league; I'd say Kitna's is outside the top five seasons. I definitely agree with Lawrence Phillips, though; truly the Trent Richardson of his era, indeed! One you missed: Touchdown Eddie Brown, who also would have been just as good a pick for Arena as Grady, also had a big one early on in WLAF, and given that I know full well he's the better player, I'm inclined to pick him over Phillips. But it's very close.

The 1992 Surge were a great team. Eddie Brown was good, so was Archer, so was future CFL legend Mike Pringle though he wasn't what he would become. Carl Parker was a good possession receiver and Paul Green with his huge shoulder pads was reliable at TE. Plus had guys like Tony Burse getting carries and receptions out of the backfield. Defense was legitimate also, Haslett as DC, Mike Sinclair dominated, Mike Jones (of SB34 fame) and Basil Procter were good LB's and the secondary was solid and had a good postseason with Louis Riddick (ESPN) who was the WLAF's wannabe Ronnie Lott (same # even) but made a few plays including a huge pick-six against the Dragons in the semifinals. They even had a good kicker with Cary Blanchard which with all the kicking problems in the league that season was somewhat of an advantage -- especially over Barcelona's FG issues.

Different type of league than the one Kitna played in, in '97. They had good defensive players (e.g. La'Roi Glover) but they gave up points and didn't win games because of their defense. It was Kitna, he made a whole slew of WR's look good and they didn't have much of a running game, except when he ran the ball himself. He had some memorable games, led a big comeback, I remember a game he set a league record (think it was for TD passes in a game?), lot of splash-reel plays and so on.

What really made it weird was the split-season, they stopped playing well after they clinched the World Bowl spot, almost like they treated the second half of the season as pre-season. Regardless, was surprising to me he wasn't MVP, should have been, and then he was World Bowl MVP. Little doubt to me he was the best player in the league in 1997 (or had the best year, however one wants to phrase it) and the league only existed 15 years so 1 of 15 in that regard. So that's why I would put him in that group. Though definitely didn't look as dominate as Phillips did during his season.

Really it's one league (that had 4 different league names) that's really split into 3 different types of leagues. 91-92 was different from when it came back in '95, and the first few years it was back there was still a mix of allocated players and non-NFL guys (like Galen Hall had Ricky Andrews (UW) as his LB with the Orlando Thunder in '92 then eventually got him back to play for him with the Rhein Fire when the league came back and Hall was HC there) then get into the 2000's and the entire league was all allocated players (with the international players, of course) which made it even different from what it was when it came back.

Reaser wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:I had to look up Barry Wagner, that's a great pick. Scored on over a fourth of his catches and over a third of his rushes, and even played both ways very well his whole career. What a great player. I love discovering unique talents like this.

Those were the glory years of the AFL. Before they went to NBC and over time got away from the ironman. The days with Barry Wagner, Stevie Thomas, Hunkie Cooper, were great. When I went to Phoenix for JUCO ball it was interesting that I saw more people wearing #14 Rattlers jerseys (Cooper) than I ever saw Cardinals jerseys when I was out and about Phoenix, Glendale, Scottsdale, Tempe, etc.

I have an autographed Steve Papin jersey...

Those were indeed great days for the Arena League.
The Rattlers/Sabercats rivalry was as intense as any and often decided who would be in the Arena Bowl.
I really don't understand how the league managed to commit suicide. For years it had a great product....

JuggernautJ wrote:I have an autographed Steve Papin jersey...

Those were indeed great days for the Arena League.
The Rattlers/Sabercats rivalry was as intense as any and often decided who would be in the Arena Bowl.
I really don't understand how the league managed to commit suicide. For years it had a great product....

Awesome! Portland State legend! Was a little over a decade later but HS teammate and one of my closest friends played for the Vikings, when Glanville was their coach.

And yes, Rattlers v. Sabercats ... Storm v. Predators was legitimate on the other side of the country, too.

I grew up halfway between Seattle/Portland so had the Forest Dragons for a few years and went down to a couple games. Always an empty crowd but somehow I never got a ball! Though almost every game got a hotdog shot in my direction so got a free dog most games. Best was an AFL (with all the team logos) bag giveaway one game and I still use that to this day. Got to see Oronde Gadsden play.

StevenBrainerd wrote:Continental: Don Jonas
Atlantic Coast: Don Jonas

My hero from his time here in Winnipeg.

StevenBrainerd wrote:Continental: Don Jonas
Atlantic Coast: Don Jonas

I'll go with Ron Quillen.