Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

BD Sullivan
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

Post by BD Sullivan »

Todd Pence wrote:The St. Louis Cardinals were 31-11 from 1974-76 and started off the 1977 season with a 7-3 mark, including a win over Dallas. They dropped their last four, prompting Don Coryell's departure, and were 16-32 over the next three seasons.
In 1970, they were 8-2-1 heading into their three December games--and proceeded to lose all three games, allowing Dallas and the Giants to move ahead of them. Oddly, in each of the next three seasons, they finished with the exact same record of 4-9-1.

The 1971 Lions were coming off an impressive Thanksgiving win over the Chiefs to give them a 7-3-1 record. They were tied with the Skins for the WC, but then lost their last three games. While they contended in 72, they then went into a mediocre/terrible phase for most of the next decade and beyond.

The 1972 Jets were 5-2 halfway through the season and in strong contention for a WC berth. They finished 2-5 and went 20-50 over their next five seasons.

The 78 Redskins won their first six games--then went 2-8 the rest of the way
BD Sullivan
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

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The 1964 Steelers were coming off a '62 season in which they finished 9-5 and a 7-4-3 season that nearly got them a playoff berth. They won three of their first five games, the last being a 23-7 thrashing of the Browns in Cleveland where John Henry Johnson ripped them apart. From that point through the end of the 1968 season, they went 15-47-3. Enter Chuck Noll...

The 1966 Eagles finished 9-5 and competed in the worthless Playoff Bowl. They started out 3-1 in '67, but over the next nine seasons until Vermeil and Peterson arrived, they were 39-81-6.

The 1976 49ers started out 6-1, then went 9-28 for the next 2+ years until Walsh arrived. Joe Thomas played a major role in the collapse.
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

The 1986 Chiefs were 10-6 with a great special teams unit and a good defense. Their biggest perceived weakness at the time was RB.

In the 1987 draft, they added RB's Paul Palmer and Christian Okoye in the first two rounds. That was supposed to bolster them into further contention.

However, they went 4-11 and 4-11-1 the next two seasons. It did lead them to Martyball, though, and much more success in the 90's.
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Rupert Patrick
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

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7DnBrnc53 wrote:The 1986 Chiefs were 10-6 with a great special teams unit and a good defense. Their biggest perceived weakness at the time was RB.

In the 1987 draft, they added RB's Paul Palmer and Christian Okoye in the first two rounds. That was supposed to bolster them into further contention.

However, they went 4-11 and 4-11-1 the next two seasons. It did lead them to Martyball, though, and much more success in the 90's.
The 86 Chiefs also had internal problems, if memory serves, it was a player revolt of sorts which led to the firing of HC John Mackovic after the season. Mackovic had coached then for four seasons, and after leading the team to their first playoff berth in 15 years, was canned; I know of know parallel similar to this in pro football history. He was replaced by Frank Gansz, who was the Chiefs special teams coach and the players strongly backed his hiring as head coach, again, I know of no historical parallel of a special teams coach being promoted directly to head coach. Gansz lasted two years before Marty took over and the Chiefs have been a pretty competitive team ever since.
"Every time you lose, you die a little bit. You die inside. Not all your organs, maybe just your liver." - George Allen
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

Rupert Patrick wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:The 1986 Chiefs were 10-6 with a great special teams unit and a good defense. Their biggest perceived weakness at the time was RB.

In the 1987 draft, they added RB's Paul Palmer and Christian Okoye in the first two rounds. That was supposed to bolster them into further contention.

However, they went 4-11 and 4-11-1 the next two seasons. It did lead them to Martyball, though, and much more success in the 90's.
The 86 Chiefs also had internal problems, if memory serves, it was a player revolt of sorts which led to the firing of HC John Mackovic after the season. Mackovic had coached then for four seasons, and after leading the team to their first playoff berth in 15 years, was canned; I know of know parallel similar to this in pro football history. He was replaced by Frank Gansz, who was the Chiefs special teams coach and the players strongly backed his hiring as head coach, again, I know of no historical parallel of a special teams coach being promoted directly to head coach. Gansz lasted two years before Marty took over and the Chiefs have been a pretty competitive team ever since.
I wonder if the strike also affected that Chief team. After winning in Week 1 of the 1987 season at home against SD, they got blown out in Week 2 at Seattle. Then, during the rest of 1987 and 88, they lost a lot of close games.
Jay Z
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

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rhickok1109 wrote:I guess maybe it wasn't that big a surprise, but the 1973 Packers were certainly a major disappointment to their fans.

In 1972, Dan Devine's second year as head coach, they made the playoffs with a 10-4 record, behind the powerful running of John Brockington and MacArthur Lane and a surprisingly good defense. Personally, I had my doubts about a team that averaged only about 9 pass completions a game. Scott Hunter was at his best handing the ball off to one of his running backs.

Sure enough, defenses did a better job of stopping the Packer running game in 1973 and Hunter was exposed when he had to throw more. There had been hopes that he would improve in his second full year as a starter, but Devine really didn't give him a chance. As it turned out, Hunter started only 5 games that year, Jim Del Gaizo started 3, and Jerry Tagge started the last 6. They combined for 6 TD passes and 17 INTs. The defense was still pretty good, but they were out there for an awful lot of plays and they were often defending a short field. The result was a 5-7-2 record and Devine was gone after a 6-8-0 record in 1974.
The 1973 Packers were expected to contend, so I think the falloff was considered surprising.

The 1972 Packers certainly had a low wattage offense as far as yards gained (22nd in the league), but they were no worse than the 1971 Vikings, who had won the NFC Central the prior year with an 11-3 mark. Of course, the Vikings addressed that deficiency by acquiring Fran Tarkenton and John Gilliam. The Packers would be less successful in that regard.

The 1972 Packers did overcome their popgun offense due to an excellent defense (4th in points allowed, 2nd in yards) and Chester Marcol. Marcol made 33 field goals, five more than any other kicker, and also had an estimated 30 touch backs, a big improvement over the Packers 1971 kickers. The Packers had over 500 more kick return yards than their opponents, an exceptional statistic considering that winning teams kick off more frequently than they receive kicks.

Scott Hunter did pick up one skill in 1972 that he retained for the rest of his career. He didn't turn the ball over. Only 19 turnovers for the Packers in '72, fewest in the league.

Another thing the Packers had going for them in 1973 is an easier schedule. In addition to in-division opponents the Lions and Vikings, the Pack played the Browns, Raiders, Redskins, Cowboys, and 49ers in 1972. All of those teams made the playoffs. For their 1973 schedule, only the Rams would make the playoffs from the eight out of division games.

I mentioned the adjustments the Vikings made after their 1971 season. They came up with Fran Tarkenton. Had to trade one of their QBs (Norm Snead, who wasn't starting anyway), their best wide receiver (Bob Grim), and some DC to the Giants to do that. Grim was replaced by John Gilliam, who cost them another QB, Gary Cuozzo.

The Packers did not have resident QB talent to trade. Hunter would be brought back. So was second year man Jerry Tagge. Tagge was a 1972 1st round draft choice. The 1972 draft was believed to be and proved out to be a weak draft. Only Franco Harris made the HOF. The other QB taken in the 1st round that year was John Reaves, who lasted longer than Tagge, but likely would not have helped the Packers much. Best QB in the draft was Brian Sipe, but he didn't go until Round 13.

I doubt any of the Packers' weak 1972 receiving corps would have brought much in the trade market either. Ancient Carroll Dale, the leading WR in 1972, was cut. Dale somehow wound up starting in the Super Bowl, but was subbed out a lot for Jim Lash by that point. Packers drafted Barry Smith in the 1st round. He started for a couple of years, but was a bust. Isaac Curtis had gone earlier to the Bengals. Johnny Rodgers and Golden Richards were the next receivers chosen. Again, hard to imagine either of those guys coming to Green Bay and making a difference. Tagge and Smith were needed picks, they just didn't work out.

The 1972 Packers just did not have enough depth to survive injuries year after year. The 1972 team did lose Gale Gillingham and Rich McGeorge early in the season. Malcolm Snider, who'd they traded Dave Hampton for, was considered a pretty good replacement for Gillingham. At TE the Pack somehow got along with Len Garrett.

The 1973 team did get off to a strong start on MNF with a 23-7 win over the Jets, who were expected to contend. McGeorge caught a TD pass, and the Packers used two TEs a lot in an effort to show the defenses something new. Devine decided to trade Garrett away shortly thereafter for some reason.

The Packers sputtered through the next four games. The defense was still playing well, but a 3-11 loss at the Met to the Vikings showed a week offense. Two ties at home in the next three weeks, to the Lions and Chiefs, sandwiched around a Yale Bowl win at New York, set up a disastrous Week 6 meeting with the Rams.

The Rams game was the first of three that the Packers failed to gain 100 yards total from scrimmage. 100 yards! With a 1,000 yard rusher on the team in Brockington! Willie Buchanon and tackle Bill Hayhoe went out of the Rams game with broken legs. Buchanon was out for the year, Hayhoe never made it back. The replacements were less than sufficient. Mal Snider was tried at tackle and much less effective there than at guard. Snider gave up two sacks to Fred Dryer in the 4th quarter for safeties. Buchanon's replacement would be Perry Smith, who wasn't even active before Buchanon got hurt. Smith would get torched, hurting the defense a lot.

The 1973 Packers not only were much weaker than the 1972 team, but the 1974 team also was better. A big disappointment.
BD Sullivan
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

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What's worse about the Packers' slide in 73 was that they had a schedule in which only four of their games came against winning teams (two Minny games, Rams, and the 7-5-2 Chiefs). Plus, the Vikings weren't as bad as their 7-7 record in 72 might have suggested, with a number of those losses coming in the final minute. With some luck, they could have been 11-3.
7DnBrnc53
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

1983 Jets: Fresh off of a 1982 AFC Title Game loss, they were expected to be a contender for Super Bowl 18. However, they had two straight 7-9 seasons in 1983 and 84.
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Todd Pence
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

Post by Todd Pence »

One team that should have been in this discussion but wasn't is the 1978 Colts. Winner of three straight divisional titles, the loss of Bert Jones for pretty much all but occasional appearances for the rest of his career sent this team over a cliff. The 38-0 undressing at the hands of Dallas in the MNF opener gave Baltimore fans a harsh purview of their beloved Colts' final five years in the city.
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Re: Teams falling off a cliff that were surprising

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2011 Jets: Fresh off of two AFC Title Game appearances, they were 8-5 before losing their last three games (including one to the SB-bound Giants). They only have had one winning season since (2015).

2012 Giants: Fresh off a SB win, they started 6-2 before only winning three more games the rest of the year (missing the playoffs). They have only been to the playoffs once since, with no victories.
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