Gronkowski Retires

[JuggernautJ]

I also am on the fence with Gronk (and Ray Lewis, to be honest).
And no Don Hutson on the list? With my limited knowledge I might've started the list with him.

I almost want to agree with bachslunch in that Gronk seemed like a throwback to Ditka and Mackey.
But faster.

[JohnTurney]

Dan Orlovsky
@danorlovsky7
More Dan Orlovsky Retweeted Field Yates
Man Gronk changed the game. Respectfully, there is no Kelce/Ertz/Graham/Olson types without Gronk...Dan Orlovsky added,




Robert Goulet
‏@FeltFootball
Really? Were they conceived with Gronk sperm? Olsen had been at it for three years by the time Gronkowski showed up and Graham was Gronkowski before Gronkowski.

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In a way Jeremy Shockey was like Gronk----not saying he was as good, but that tall and big "mis match" with height and decent speed

[JohnTurney]

This was my list:

Bronko Nagurski
Sammy Baugh
Jim Brown
Johnny Unitas
Dick Butkus
Gale Sayers
Joe Namath
Earl Campbell
Lawrence Taylor
Jerry Rice
Bo Jackson
Deion Sanders
Ray Lewis
JJ Watt

I don't know, he was someone who combined size with rare speed for that size, also had soft hands and was good and willing blocker. I'd have a Reggie White and Deacon on that list, but that's just me....but Gronk, to me, is HOFer, easy, and has case for best ever. Not saying he is, but the case can be made.

[sluggermatt15]

Gronk was an outstanding player. Definitely a unique fellow and I agree he will be enshrined in Canton one day.

Best ever TE? No, I don't think so, in my opinion.

[74_75_78_79_]

I always think Mackey and Ditka first when I think of TEs. Why is it that Mackey only has three All Pros to his credit? I would guess Gronk should be at least a top-3 all-time TE if not tie him up with the other two. Not sure this should be held against Gronk, but the Pats were still able to win without him. I believe they had a real good W/L record in games in which he was injured. Something at least worth throwing out there...just imagine if Ditka had a QB like Brady (or, in Mackey's case, Unitas) to throw to him in his career?

[RRMarshall]

I think there is an argument to be made that Bob Hayes and Homer Jones changed the game as the first real "speed burners" at WR that could give a team a quick score on one play. Neither are HOF caliber but it did bring a new aspect to the NFL in the mid-1960s (of course there were a few in the AFL at the time as well).

Certainly hard to quantify blocking ability but I think that total package puts Gronk ahead of his contemporaries at TE who are/were mostly pass catchers. Of course the SB rings don't hurt either, and we know they pull a lot of weight with the HOF committee for some reason....

[JWL]

Whether Hayes is Hall of Fame caliber is another debate to be had but factually he is a Hall of Famer.

[bachslunch]

I think there is an argument to be made that Bob Hayes and Homer Jones changed the game as the first real "speed burners" at WR that could give a team a quick score on one play. Neither are HOF caliber but it did bring a new aspect to the NFL in the mid-1960s (of course there were a few in the AFL at the time as well).

There were speed burner WRs in the NFL well before Hayes and Jones, such as Ray Renfro and Harlon Hill. The notion that guys like Hayes were the first such WRs has been put forth a lot over the years, and it’s not accurate best I can tell.

[TanksAndSpartans]

I would have Hutson on that list as well, most histories I've read credit him with innovative pass patterns. I think there were seasons where his receiving yardage totals were like double the #2 player as well, if you value statistics. In my opinion, he's more of a no-brainer than someone like Bo Jackson. History has seen a lot of good running backs. Jim Thorpe would be on my list too. Pretty dominant player pre-1920 and some have said Warner had him in mind when he developed the single-wing.

I think Gronk is a HoFer, first ballot wouldn't surprise me. Some on here have said he was the bet TE ever. Some other site implied that Mackey at the top of all-time TE lists is revisionist history. I don't recall the site, but the argument was related to his post-season honors. I thought his highlights were pretty impressive, but the only game film I've seen of him was SB III and I think he had a drop early and then kind of disappeared. Seemed like a great player to me, I was just reminded of all that when an earlier poster mentioned him. Without watching the all-22 or knowing why a game plan was what it was, I don't think that much can be inferred from SB III. There are some players where I wonder why there wasn't more of an effort to feed them the ball - Nagurski, Motley, Mackey may be another.

[rhickok1109]

I would have Hutson on that list as well, most histories I've read credit him with innovative pass patterns. I think there were seasons were his receiving yardage totals were like double the #2 player as well if you value statistics. In my opinion, he's more of a no-brainer than someone like Bo Jackson. History has had a lot of good running backs.

Absolutely. Hutson and Cecil Isbell basically developed the whole route tree while working out on their lunch hours in the parking lot of a paper mill where they both had off-season jobs. They invented the concept of throwing the ball. before the receiver makes his break, to the spot where he's going to be when he's open.