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No, I feel that Gonzalez has been vastly overrated. To be really good, a tight end should be able to block, and Gonzalez was a terrible blocker. Most of the time, he didn't even make a very good effort at pretending to block. He was a terrific red zone target and a first-down maker, which is very important, but he averaged like about 11 yards per catch. I'd take Jason Witten over Gonzalez any day.Rupert Patrick wrote:Tony Gonzalez doesn't strike you as this year's "mic drop" first year candidate, like Favre two years ago, and Ray Lewis last year, where no discussion is really necessary?rhickok1109 wrote:I see several people who perhaps should be in some day, but none of them jumps out at me as someone who absolutely has to be in the HOF.
If I were a voter, I'd spend a long time looking at the list before making any decisions.
Limiting it to Law and Seymour, who are on FInal 25. Not sure what criteria is to come up short. Is it your eye test? or honors? Others. From my eye test both pass and have enough honors. Taw was an excellent man to man, one of very, very best if his era. Seymour one of best 3-4 ends ever. His "scouting" reports from Giddings and even Buchsbaum early are very high. BAck then, stopping the run was a big deal and getting inside pressure, too. Seymour, in my view, only lacks stats but that is because he was more of a tackle than end. Oh well, reasonable people can disagree, but Law and Seymour are 2 of the best defensive players of past 20 years IMO74_75_78_79_ wrote:I'm thinking - fair or not - that none of the 2000s Pats defensive players will ever make Canton. For the very reason you give, put one in you have to put them all in (cancel each other out). Law, Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Wilfork, and perhaps my personal favorite of the group (their 'Mean Joe', all-time post-season sack king)...Willie McGinest. As for the "fair or not" beginning of this paragraph, it bothers me to have lean heavy toward 'fair'. I respect them all - no multiple Lombardis without them - but individually, they each sadly come up short. Perhaps you guys placing them all in HOVG in due time may do the trick compensation-wise.JohnTurney wrote: Seymour will complicate matters somes, so perhaps 2 Pat Defenders cancel each others.
It’s true that Gonzalez wasn’t much of a blocker. Problem is, a TE’s inability to block hasn’t been a HoF disqualifier for some time, otherwise none of Kellen Winslow, Shannon Sharpe, or Ozzie Newsome would be in. They’re pretty much just big WRs, but for better or worse, they’re in. Gonzalez would be a no brainer as a WR with his compiling stats, actually.rhickok1109 wrote:No, I feel that Gonzalez has been vastly overrated. To be really good, a tight end should be able to block, and Gonzalez was a terrible blocker. Most of the time, he didn't even make a very good effort at pretending to block. He was a terrific red zone target and a first-down maker, which is very important, but he averaged like about 11 yards per catch. I'd take Jason Witten over Gonzalez any day.Rupert Patrick wrote:Tony Gonzalez doesn't strike you as this year's "mic drop" first year candidate, like Favre two years ago, and Ray Lewis last year, where no discussion is really necessary?rhickok1109 wrote:I see several people who perhaps should be in some day, but none of them jumps out at me as someone who absolutely has to be in the HOF.
If I were a voter, I'd spend a long time looking at the list before making any decisions.
Oh, I'm not saying Gonzalez isn't HOF-worthy. But he doesn't strike me as someone as absolutely must be chosen in his first year of eligibility, which was the question I responded to.bachslunch wrote:It’s true that Gonzalez wasn’t much of a blocker. Problem is, a TE’s inability to block hasn’t been a HoF disqualifier for some time, otherwise none of Kellen Winslow, Shannon Sharpe, or Ozzie Newsome would be in. They’re pretty much just big WRs, but for better or worse, they’re in. Gonzalez would be a no brainer as a WR with his compiling stats, actually.rhickok1109 wrote:No, I feel that Gonzalez has been vastly overrated. To be really good, a tight end should be able to block, and Gonzalez was a terrible blocker. Most of the time, he didn't even make a very good effort at pretending to block. He was a terrific red zone target and a first-down maker, which is very important, but he averaged like about 11 yards per catch. I'd take Jason Witten over Gonzalez any day.Rupert Patrick wrote:
Tony Gonzalez doesn't strike you as this year's "mic drop" first year candidate, like Favre two years ago, and Ray Lewis last year, where no discussion is really necessary?
At least it’s good to know guys like Jason Witten and Rob Gronkowski can indeed block. Makes their HoF cases that much stronger.
When it comes to yards per catch, they’re all pretty close to each other. Gonzalez is on the low end, but Witten’s actually at the bottom of the group:
Witten. 10.8
Gonzalez. 11.4
Newsome. 12.1
Sharpe. 12.3
Gates. 12.4
Winslow. 12.5
Gronkowski. 15.2
The major outlier here is Gronkowski, and by a good margin.
Should nit-picking* be a major quality we want in the HoF voters, especially when talking about a first-ballot consideration.rewing84 wrote:who cares if he was a terrible blocker thats what i called nitpicking