Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

superbowlfanatic wrote:Even more than Rupert P.'s inclusion of the Titans/Ravens AFC Conf. Championship before Super Bowl 34,
I think their matchup in the AFC Divisional round the next season showcased the two very best teams in the NFL that year. I truly believed that whoever won that Ravens/Titant game would be far superior to the Raiders and any team that the NFC put forward. And that proved to be correct.

I think you got mixed up, the Titans and Ravens did not meet in the AFC Championship before SB 34, that was Tennessee and Jacksonville. I was referring to the 2000 postseason Tennessee-Baltimore Divisional playoff game (along with the 1997 postseason Denver-Kansas City Divisional game) as two divisional games I felt featured the two best teams in the NFL and whomever won those games would go all the way.

Interesting that the game that Sports Illustrated touted as "Super Bowl VIII 1/2 " couldn't make the list - 1974 Oakland-Miami. It was a seemingly foregone conclusion that the winner of that would win the Super Bowl, but of course Chuck Noll used that game as inspirational leverage to charge up his team to their first Lombardi trophy.

It's a fun topic, completely subjective of course, but here's my two cents on the years that I paid the most attention to when they transpired:

1976: Raiders-Patriots in the playoffs. Both those teams were stronger than the Vikings that year. Maybe Steelers-Raiders, but I don't think the Steelers would have beaten the Vikings without Harris and Bleier in the Super Bowl, based on the regular season game that year.

1977: Cowboys-Vikings in the NFC Champ. If the Vikes had played the Broncos in the Super Bowl and if Tarkenton could have played (and I have no idea if he could have), the Vikes could have won a low-scoring game, just as they did over Denver in Week 2 the next year.

1980: Raiders-Chargers in the AFC Champ. I think San Diego would have been a little bit better than Philly that year.

1981: SF-Dallas in NFC Champ.

1984: SF-Chi in NFC Champ. I wonder about this one, given what Chicago accomplished the next season. Could Chicago without McMahon have found a way to play ball control with Payton, have the D force some turnovers, and surprise a Miami team that would have been favored by probably about 10-14 points?

1986: NYG-WSH and NYG-SF - I think those three teams were stronger than Denver.

1987: WSH-MIN and WSH-CHI - Ditto the previous year, all three stronger than Denver.

1988: SF-CHI and SF-MIN- All three teams a little bit better than Cincy, for different reasons.

1989: SF-MIN in the playoff round - I think either of those beat Denver, but I'm not sure the Rams do. Maybe.

1990: NYG-SF - Either finds a way to beat Buffalo in two completely different kinds of games.

Evan wrote:Interesting that the game that Sports Illustrated touted as "Super Bowl VIII 1/2 " couldn't make the list - 1974 Oakland-Miami. It was a seemingly foregone conclusion that the winner of that would win the Super Bowl, but of course Chuck Noll used that game as inspirational leverage to charge up his team to their first Lombardi trophy.

It's a fun topic, completely subjective of course, but here's my two cents on the years that I paid the most attention to when they transpired:

1976: Raiders-Patriots in the playoffs. Both those teams were stronger than the Vikings that year. Maybe Steelers-Raiders, but I don't think the Steelers would have beaten the Vikings without Harris and Bleier in the Super Bowl, based on the regular season game that year.

1977: Cowboys-Vikings in the NFC Champ. If the Vikes had played the Broncos in the Super Bowl and if Tarkenton could have played (and I have no idea if he could have), the Vikes could have won a low-scoring game, just as they did over Denver in Week 2 the next year.

1980: Raiders-Chargers in the AFC Champ. I think San Diego would have been a little bit better than Philly that year.

1981: SF-Dallas in NFC Champ.

1984: SF-Chi in NFC Champ. I wonder about this one, given what Chicago accomplished the next season. Could Chicago without McMahon have found a way to play ball control with Payton, have the D force some turnovers, and surprise a Miami team that would have been favored by probably about 10-14 points?

1986: NYG-WSH and NYG-SF - I think those three teams were stronger than Denver.

1987: WSH-MIN and WSH-CHI - Ditto the previous year, all three stronger than Denver.

1988: SF-CHI and SF-MIN- All three teams a little bit better than Cincy, for different reasons.

1989: SF-MIN in the playoff round - I think either of those beat Denver, but I'm not sure the Rams do. Maybe.

1990: NYG-SF - Either finds a way to beat Buffalo in two completely different kinds of games.

It's funny because your post basically eliminates all the Bronco super bowl teams from the '80's. I think the '84 Dolphins would have handled the '84 Bears pretty handily. That offense was a tough matchup for the '85 Bears let alone the '84 team (and the '84 Dolphins offense was a little better than the '85 version).

I don't think the '90 49ers beat the Bills. THe running game was not a strong suit for the 1990 49ers and they wouldn't have been able to control the clock like the Giants were able to. I think the Bills beat the 49ers even if Montana plays but they especially win if Young is playing the game due to Montana being injured.

lastcat3 wrote:
It's funny because your post basically eliminates all the Bronco super bowl teams from the '80's. I think the '84 Dolphins would have handled the '84 Bears pretty handily. That offense was a tough matchup for the '85 Bears let alone the '84 team (and the '84 Dolphins offense was a little better than the '85 version).

I don't think the '90 49ers beat the Bills. THe running game was not a strong suit for the 1990 49ers and they wouldn't have been able to control the clock like the Giants were able to. I think the Bills beat the 49ers even if Montana plays but they especially win if Young is playing the game due to Montana being injured.

Just my opinion, but I think in the years the Broncos made the Super Bowl in the 1980s, clearly the top 2 to 4 teams in the league were in the NFC.

I think the 84 Bears defense, which had a lot more sacks than the 1985 team, could have given the Dolphins a tough game. The 84 Bears also had Al Harris and Todd Bell, which the 85 team did not. I think the main difference between the Bears in 1985 and 1984 was the mystique they got from McMahon and Perry, and the momentum from their national notoriety. Defensively I think the 84 Bears defense was capable of playing even better than 1985. That being said, without McMahon available in 1984, I agree that Shula probably finds a way to outcoach Ditka in a close game.

I could definitely be persuaded about the Bills beating the 49ers in 1990, especially with an immature Steve Young at QB in place of Joe Cool.

Evan wrote:Interesting that the game that Sports Illustrated touted as "Super Bowl VIII 1/2 " couldn't make the list - 1974 Oakland-Miami. It was a seemingly foregone conclusion that the winner of that would win the Super Bowl, but of course Chuck Noll used that game as inspirational leverage to charge up his team to their first Lombardi trophy.

It's a fun topic, completely subjective of course, but here's my two cents on the years that I paid the most attention to when they transpired:

1976: Raiders-Patriots in the playoffs. Both those teams were stronger than the Vikings that year. Maybe Steelers-Raiders, but I don't think the Steelers would have beaten the Vikings without Harris and Bleier in the Super Bowl, based on the regular season game that year.

1977: Cowboys-Vikings in the NFC Champ. If the Vikes had played the Broncos in the Super Bowl and if Tarkenton could have played (and I have no idea if he could have), the Vikes could have won a low-scoring game, just as they did over Denver in Week 2 the next year.

1980: Raiders-Chargers in the AFC Champ. I think San Diego would have been a little bit better than Philly that year.

1981: SF-Dallas in NFC Champ.

1984: SF-Chi in NFC Champ. I wonder about this one, given what Chicago accomplished the next season. Could Chicago without McMahon have found a way to play ball control with Payton, have the D force some turnovers, and surprise a Miami team that would have been favored by probably about 10-14 points?

1986: NYG-WSH and NYG-SF - I think those three teams were stronger than Denver.

1987: WSH-MIN and WSH-CHI - Ditto the previous year, all three stronger than Denver.

1988: SF-CHI and SF-MIN- All three teams a little bit better than Cincy, for different reasons.

1989: SF-MIN in the playoff round - I think either of those beat Denver, but I'm not sure the Rams do. Maybe.

1990: NYG-SF - Either finds a way to beat Buffalo in two completely different kinds of games.

I differ on many of these:

1976 - I have to figure if the Steelers had beaten the Raiders without Harris and Bleier, that they'd have been back for the Super Bowl. Even with just one of them in the Super Bowl, I lean towards Pittsburgh narrowly beating the Vikings in the Super Bowl.

1977 - I think Denver-Minnesota in Super Bowl XII would have been a low scoring game, but I think the Broncos defense would have been too much, and being that Tarkenton broke his leg in early November, there is no way he would have been able to play at full strength nine weeks later. I predict Denver 14 - Minnesota 3

1980 - I think the Eagles were pretty even to the Chargers and Raiders, but Vermeil brought them into the game too wound up that day. I think Eagles-Chargers was a tossup.

1981 - Cincinnati gave the 49ers a close game; I think they would have given Dallas a close game too. Game would have went either way.

1984 - In 1984, Chicago wasn't yet Da Bears, and Miami would have beat them in the Super Bowl - 31 to 10.

1986 - I think Elway would have found a way to beat Washington in the Super Bowl. The 1987 Redskins, Doug Williams notwithstanding, were a little stronger than the 1986 team in my opinion. San Francisco lost Montana for a chunk of the 1986 season but didn't really start clicking until late in the season. I don't know who wins this one, but it's a moot point as the 49ers got whipped by the Giants 49-3 in the Divisional game.

1987 - The 1987 Bears were like the 1986 Bears, a strong defense that covered for a weak offense, and it cost them in the postseason when they played a decent team. The Broncos barely got past them in a Monday Night Game in Denver; in a Super Bowl, who knows. I think if the Vikings had gotten past the Redskins, they would have beat the Broncos in the Super Bowl.

1988 - I think the Bengals would have beat Chicago or Minnesota in the Super Bowl; San Francisco was lucky to get past them.

1989 - I think it could be argued that any of the NFC playoff teams from 1989 would have beat the Broncos.

1990 - San Francisco vs. Buffalo would have been a shootout - with Montana, whoever had the ball last would win, but the 49ers without Montana, I would have to go with Buffalo.

It seems as if everyone has ignored the two easiest and most obvious (or maybe they don't fit the parameters because they were NFL championship games): Packers vs Cowboys in both 1966 and 1967.

Would any of you possibly place the ’65 tiebreaker between Colts & Packers (Matte vs Zeke) in this discussion? I would say probably not in that Browns were defending-Champs and finishing with best-record. Colts did score more and allow less points than Cleveland though, but last year’s title game rout had to be fresh enough in most minds. And Packers swept Colts regular season although, yes, in their second win over them penultimate week, Unitas was out (Cuozzo instead).

If Steelers, in Big Ben’s rookie year, wouldn’t have been in such cruise-control down the stretch, I’d include the ’04 AFCC. But cruise-control it was and Colts, I felt, were the 2nd-best team going into the playoffs. Especially now that Peyton finally got over the hump, winning himself a couple playoff games the year before; and beating Brees’s Chargers in that late battle of 11-3s helps their case with me as well. They beat Steelers in a hypo ’04 playoff at Heinz IMO (heck, if JETS gave them such a nail-biter...)

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Would any of you possibly place the ’65 tiebreaker between Colts & Packers (Matte vs Zeke) in this discussion? I would say probably not in that Browns were defending-Champs and finishing with best-record. Colts did score more and allow less points than Cleveland though, but last year’s title game rout had to be fresh enough in most minds. And Packers swept Colts regular season although, yes, in their second win over them penultimate week, Unitas was out (Cuozzo instead).

If Steelers, in Big Ben’s rookie year, wouldn’t have been in such cruise-control down the stretch, I’d include the ’04 AFCC. But cruise-control it was and Colts, I felt, were the 2nd-best team going into the playoffs. Especially now that Peyton finally got over the hump, winning himself a couple playoff games the year before; and beating Brees’s Chargers in that late battle of 11-3s helps their case with me as well. They beat Steelers in a hypo ’04 playoff at Heinz IMO (heck, if JETS gave them such a nail-biter...)

I don't know if it was truly cruise control or if it was just that the Steelers were a little overrated that seasons. Big Ben had a good regular season but I'm not sure he was quite ready for playoff level of play. They almost lost to the Jets prior to even getting to the AFC Champion game. I remember going into that game thinking there was very little chance the Steelers could win and it was mainly because I didn't think Ben was quite ready for that level of play just yet.

I think the '05 Steelers were a far better team than the '04 version was even though they didn't have as good of regular season and it was mainly due to the fact that Ben had a lot more experience at that point.

In 1984, Chicago wasn't yet Da Bears, and Miami would have beat them in the Super Bowl - 31 to 10.

Actually, the 84 Bears D may have been better than the 85 Super Bowl Shufflers. They had more sacks, and they had Todd Bell and Al Harris (both season-long holdouts in 1985). If the Bears would have had McMahon with that D in a hypo Bear-Dolphin Super Bowl XIX, the Bears would have had a good shot.

Let's take a closer look a the 70's:

1972 (AFCCG): The Steelers did not have all of their championship pieces in place in 1972 - the draft that brought Swann, Stallworth, Webster and Lambert was still two years away - but they gave the eventual undefeated Super Bowl champion Dolphins a good game. If, and this is a BIG if, the Steelers had managed to get by Miami, then I can see the Steel Curtain matching up very well with George Allen's 'over the hill gang'.

1973 (AFCCG): The Raiders struggled to compete with the Dolphins, noting the final 27-10 score and over 200 combined rushing yards from Csonka and Morris, but if the Raiders can beat the Vikings in 1976, why couldn't they do the same in 1973?

1974 (AFCCG): see above

1975 (AFCCG): It is too bad we never got to see a Raiders-Cowboys Super Bowl back in the day. Madden vs. Landry? Epic! Let's say on the games final play, Mel Blount slips on the ice and Cliff Branch waltzes into the end zone, I say the Raiders have the edge in this contest, provided that Stabler does not throw too many interceptions against the Doomsday Defense.

1979 (AFCCG): So the refs call the Mike Renfro pass at the back of the end zone complete (as they should have) and momentum decisively changes in favor of the Oilers. A fired up Oilers defense proceeds to shut down the Steelers offense and leads the way to a 20-17 victory. What exactly do the Rams have in 1979 to challenge the Oilers? Certainly not Vince Ferragamo. I see Earl Campbell and the Oilers wearing the Rams down for a 24-13 victory.