Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

CSKreager wrote:The 1991 Coslet Jets team that 74_75_78_79 mentioned are far from the worst 8-8 playoff team.

Despite their record, they did have a positive point differential and really only got blown out once all year at the Lions in December- the Bills game in December was a close game until Buffalo tacked on a late 4th quarter score. Their scoring offense/defense wasn't completely lopsided in favor of one or the other, so it wasn’t ghastly either way.

Could have beaten the Oilers/Bills at home, should have beaten the Bears on a MNF.

Their other 6 losses: 7, 3, 6, 3, 1, 3 points.

That said, they were very fortunate that San Diego came through against Miami in week 16.

They were also lucky that the Steelers didn't win two of three winnable games against the Giants, Browns, and Broncos in the middle of the season. The 91 Steelers didn't have a positive point differential, but they did have more Pro Bowlers than the Jets, and they had more recent playoff experience.

If the Steelers win two of those games, they have a 9-7 record like the Raiders. A better conference record (8-4 to 7-5) would send the Steelers to KC, and the Raiders to Denver or Houston (depends on who the Steelers beat between the Browns and Broncos).

Thanks, and you got some points, but I never at all mistakened the '91 Steelers as a "could-have-been" playoff team. If some other team besides Coz's 8-8 squad should have instead made the playoffs in '91, it's certainly not the 'Burgh. A couple friends and I actually attended the game at Philly in Week #4. Steelers were 9-7 the past two years. It could be argued '90 was better than '89; but that painful Cody Carlson-fueled finale was a bitter pill I was still swallowing from the year before. Felt optimistic-enough going into '91, but first was that punch-in-gut loss Wk2 at Buffalo which took any air out of that 2-1 start going into the Vet. But I still felt optimistic, especially after the 1st Q. But Eagles end up taking over after that, and then being down 3-0 at halftime in Indy their next game? Yes, they take care of business but still. Neil O was so close to rallying them on MNF vs G-men, they did almost beat AFCC-participant-to-be Denver at Mile High, but Wash coming into Three Rivers and simply slicing through them like a hot butter knife through butter, 41-14! Yes, it's the 1991 Redskins we're talking of, but still! Steelers beat a good Houston team to still be mathematically-alive at 5-7 but, despite playing respectable, lose their next one on Turkey Day at Big D. Then Houston gets them back, 31-6, at the Dome! Win their last two games at home against bad teams, each by a score of 17-10, to forge their record to 7-9. That very last win avenged their earlier loss to Cleveland that you brought up. Browns' HC? Another future-mulitple-Lombardi-winner in his first year as a HC. Hoodie opened that '91 season against Jimmy Johnson - JJ coaching against Noll, of courste, on Thanksgiving. It was sadly, simply time for someone else to take over as HC for '92. Bill Cowher is what the Dr would order! And Noll, and the front office, certainly should get credit as well (setting the table) for the 6-straight playoff-appearances to immediately come.

74_75_78_79_ wrote: Thanks, and you got some points, but I never at all mistakened the '91 Steelers as a "could-have-been" playoff team. If some other team besides Coz's 8-8 squad should have instead made the playoffs in '91, it's certainly not the 'Burgh. A couple friends and I actually attended the game at Philly in Week #4. Steelers were 9-7 the past two years. It could be argued '90 was better than '89; but that painful Cody Carlson-fueled finale was a bitter pill I was still swallowing from the year before. Felt optimistic-enough going into '91, but first was that punch-in-gut loss Wk2 at Buffalo which took any air out of that 2-1 start going into the Vet. But I still felt optimistic, especially after the 1st Q. But Eagles end up taking over after that, and then being down 3-0 at halftime in Indy their next game? Yes, they take care of business but still. Neil O was so close to rallying them on MNF vs G-men, they did almost beat AFCC-participant-to-be Denver at Mile High, but Wash coming into Three Rivers and simply slicing through them like a hot butter knife through butter, 41-14! Yes, it's the 1991 Redskins we're talking of, but still! Steelers beat a good Houston team to still be mathematically-alive at 5-7 but, despite playing respectable, lose their next one on Turkey Day at Big D. Then Houston gets them back, 31-6, at the Dome! Win their last two games at home against bad teams, each by a score of 17-10, to forge their record to 7-9. That very last win avenged their earlier loss to Cleveland that you brought up. Browns' HC? Another future-mulitple-Lombardi-winner in his first year as a HC. Hoodie opened that '91 season against Jimmy Johnson - JJ coaching against Noll, of courste, on Thanksgiving. It was sadly, simply time for someone else to take over as HC for '92. Bill Cowher is what the Dr would order! And Noll, and the front office, certainly should get credit as well (setting the table) for the 6-straight playoff-appearances to immediately come.

I am not that big of a Cowher fan. Last year, me and my friends were watching the NE@KC opener together, and one of them (who hates Cowher with a passion. This guy has been ripping on Cowher since the day I met him) brought him up again. I said that Cowher kind of got lucky his first year. They were down 14-0 in Week 1 in the Astrodome, and then he tries a fake punt that is successful. They score to make it 14-7, and ride the momentum to a 29-24 win. The momentum continued the next few weeks as they got off to a good start, and they rode that to an 11-5 record.

If they didn't win that week 1 game, and if they didn't have Barry Foster, that team may have been 8-8, and who knows how Cowher's career turns out after that. He eventually won a SB, but I give the credit to Big Ben, not Cowher.

As for the 91 team, you make good points, but the AFC was weak that year, and I don't think the Jets were better than the Steelers.

2004 Vikings
Daunte Culpepper - 4,717 yards
At the time, I think that was the fifth-best all-time for a QB on a season.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote: Thanks, and you got some points, but I never at all mistakened the '91 Steelers as a "could-have-been" playoff team. If some other team besides Coz's 8-8 squad should have instead made the playoffs in '91, it's certainly not the 'Burgh. A couple friends and I actually attended the game at Philly in Week #4. Steelers were 9-7 the past two years. It could be argued '90 was better than '89; but that painful Cody Carlson-fueled finale was a bitter pill I was still swallowing from the year before. Felt optimistic-enough going into '91, but first was that punch-in-gut loss Wk2 at Buffalo which took any air out of that 2-1 start going into the Vet. But I still felt optimistic, especially after the 1st Q. But Eagles end up taking over after that, and then being down 3-0 at halftime in Indy their next game? Yes, they take care of business but still. Neil O was so close to rallying them on MNF vs G-men, they did almost beat AFCC-participant-to-be Denver at Mile High, but Wash coming into Three Rivers and simply slicing through them like a hot butter knife through butter, 41-14! Yes, it's the 1991 Redskins we're talking of, but still! Steelers beat a good Houston team to still be mathematically-alive at 5-7 but, despite playing respectable, lose their next one on Turkey Day at Big D. Then Houston gets them back, 31-6, at the Dome! Win their last two games at home against bad teams, each by a score of 17-10, to forge their record to 7-9. That very last win avenged their earlier loss to Cleveland that you brought up. Browns' HC? Another future-mulitple-Lombardi-winner in his first year as a HC. Hoodie opened that '91 season against Jimmy Johnson - JJ coaching against Noll, of courste, on Thanksgiving. It was sadly, simply time for someone else to take over as HC for '92. Bill Cowher is what the Dr would order! And Noll, and the front office, certainly should get credit as well (setting the table) for the 6-straight playoff-appearances to immediately come.

I am not that big of a Cowher fan. Last year, me and my friends were watching the NE@KC opener together, and one of them (who hates Cowher with a passion. This guy has been ripping on Cowher since the day I met him) brought him up again. I said that Cowher kind of got lucky his first year. They were down 14-0 in Week 1 in the Astrodome, and then he tries a fake punt that is successful. They score to make it 14-7, and ride the momentum to a 29-24 win. The momentum continued the next few weeks as they got off to a good start, and they rode that to an 11-5 record.

If they didn't win that week 1 game, and if they didn't have Barry Foster, that team may have been 8-8, and who knows how Cowher's career turns out after that. He eventually won a SB, but I give the credit to Big Ben, not Cowher.

As for the 91 team, you make good points, but the AFC was weak that year, and I don't think the Jets were better than the Steelers.

I don't disagree about Bill Cowher. He was just another coach who could not win the big game until he won the SB in 2005. He lost 4 AFC Champ Games on his home field - 1995 vs. SD, 1997 vs. Den, 2001 vs. NE, 2004 vs. NE - ouch. As a lifelong Steeler fan, I don't think he was as good as everyone says. I think he mismanaged Kordell Stewart, but that's for a different thread. Anyway, back on topic.

I vote the 1990 Saints as one of the worst 8-8 teams to make the playoffs. Offense ranked lower than 20 in both points and yards. Didn't have a RB crack 600 yards rushing, a top five team in turning the ball over. But I'll give them that they won their last 2 games - against division leader San Francisco and against Los Angeles Rams - to make the playoffs, while Dallas lost their final two games to help out the Saints.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

CSKreager wrote:The 1991 Coslet Jets team that 74_75_78_79 mentioned are far from the worst 8-8 playoff team.

Despite their record, they did have a positive point differential and really only got blown out once all year at the Lions in December- the Bills game in December was a close game until Buffalo tacked on a late 4th quarter score. Their scoring offense/defense wasn't completely lopsided in favor of one or the other, so it wasn’t ghastly either way.

Could have beaten the Oilers/Bills at home, should have beaten the Bears on a MNF.

Their other 6 losses: 7, 3, 6, 3, 1, 3 points.

That said, they were very fortunate that San Diego came through against Miami in week 16.

They were also lucky that the Steelers didn't win two of three winnable games against the Giants, Browns, and Broncos in the middle of the season. The 91 Steelers didn't have a positive point differential, but they did have more Pro Bowlers than the Jets, and they had more recent playoff experience.

If the Steelers win two of those games, they have a 9-7 record like the Raiders. A better conference record (8-4 to 7-5) would send the Steelers to KC, and the Raiders to Denver or Houston (depends on who the Steelers beat between the Browns and Broncos).

Seattle was the bigger what-if. They beat the Jets head-to-head. They lost a ton of close games (Raiders/49ers/Saints/Chargers) they would have gotten in at 8-8 and I believe they would have had H2H tiebreaker with the Jets and who knows with Miami.

Knox' s final Seahawk team even with Krieg out for 1.5 half months probably had a better roster than the Jets, yet they lacked the close game luck that NYJ had.