Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Indeed its Johnny Robinson Conrgats and Long overdue

Great news!
Does anyone know which other Seniors were in the running?

bachslunch wrote:True about the Contributor category. There aren’t a lot of viable candidates:

Gil Brandt
Steve Sabol
Art McNally
Robert Kraft
Ralph Hay
Bucko Kilroy
Joe Thomas
Pat Bowlen
Bud Adams
Art Modell
Clint Murchison
Jack Kent Cooke
Carroll Rosenbloom

I’d probably draw the in-out line either before or after Kilroy. Though they could prolong this by adding in coaches.

They’d open a can of worms if they start adding scouts. They actually have their own Hall of Fame, with an extensive membership roster:

https://www.ourlads.com/scouthof/

Personally, I think that’s sufficient for them.

What about officials? The Baseball, Basketball and Hockey Hall of Fames have already elected referees/umpires.

Oner problem for the PFHOF in this category is that there have been outstanding and long-term officials who never have been referees, as each position have their specific rules.

ChrisBabcock wrote:I've been hearing some buzz about Bowlen lately. Brandt would be a logical choice. ....aaaand we will get closer to the day that they will run out of "contributors" to nominate and do away with that silly category.

I am a lifelong Cowboy fan, and I am against Brandt being enshrined? Why? Because, although every "draft guru" has had their misses (Bobby Beathard drafting Ryan Leaf and trading draft picks and players to get him, for example), in the 1980s no other NFL team drafted as poorly as Dallas (and that's why Tom Landry and Tex Schramm sunked at the bottom at the end of the decade, and Jerry Jones could buy the team). The main culprit was Brandt, who never realized that every team had surpassed him in finding players, and it came to light that Brandt wasn't that special talent evaluator: that his main strength were his connections with college coaches, and even owner Bum Bright wanted to fire him, but the former owner, Clint Murchison, Jr. had Bright promise him that he always had a job, as Brandt's wife had divorced Gil and married Murchison.

Teo wrote:

ChrisBabcock wrote:I've been hearing some buzz about Bowlen lately. Brandt would be a logical choice. ....aaaand we will get closer to the day that they will run out of "contributors" to nominate and do away with that silly category.

I am a lifelong Cowboy fan, and I am against Brandt being enshrined? Why? Because, although every "draft guru" has had their misses (Bobby Beathard drafting Ryan Leaf and trading draft picks and players to get him, for example), in the 1980s no other NFL team drafted as poorly as Dallas (and that's why Tom Landry and Tex Schramm sunked at the bottom at the end of the decade, and Jerry Jones could buy the team). The main culprit was Brandt, who never realized that every team had surpassed him in finding players, and it came to light that Brandt wasn't that special talent evaluator: that his main strength were his connections with college coaches, and even owner Bum Bright wanted to fire him, but the former owner, Clint Murchison, Jr. had Bright promise him that he always had a job, as Brandt's wife had divorced Gil and married Murchison.

Teo i am with you 100% i read in peter golenbocks cowboys book that basically that the cowboys didnt draft a player in the 80s because gil didnt discover them

Shorty Ray is the only official-type enshrinee. I’m actually hard pressed to think of a pure game official in NFL history who would be the equal to, say, Bill Klem in baseball (he is in the BBHoF). I mean, look — it’d be easy to toss out a name like Ed Hochuli just because he’s pretty recent and relatively high profile. Realistically, who would be deserving in this category, and more importantly why? I’m open to suggestions.

Oh, and congratulations to Johnny Robinson. Extremely deserving, also extremely old/still alive to enjoy it. Got screwed when he was a regular candidate by anti-AFL bias. Fine profile of 6/7/allAFL, has second best film study score at Ken Crippen’s website only behind Don Hutson. Probably one of the best choices available — really the sort of candidate the Senior process is meant to address. No complaints here — the committee did a great job.

Robinson...and you can bet that it will be Gil Brandt and Pat Bowlen next week

Robinson 100% worthy.

6 Chiefs from a one-time SB winning defense.
Buchanan
Culp
Bell
Lanier
Thomas
Robinson

Teo wrote:

ChrisBabcock wrote:I've been hearing some buzz about Bowlen lately. Brandt would be a logical choice. ....aaaand we will get closer to the day that they will run out of "contributors" to nominate and do away with that silly category.

I am a lifelong Cowboy fan, and I am against Brandt being enshrined? Why? Because, although every "draft guru" has had their misses (Bobby Beathard drafting Ryan Leaf and trading draft picks and players to get him, for example), in the 1980s no other NFL team drafted as poorly as Dallas (and that's why Tom Landry and Tex Schramm sunked at the bottom at the end of the decade, and Jerry Jones could buy the team). The main culprit was Brandt, who never realized that every team had surpassed him in finding players, and it came to light that Brandt wasn't that special talent evaluator: that his main strength were his connections with college coaches, and even owner Bum Bright wanted to fire him, but the former owner, Clint Murchison, Jr. had Bright promise him that he always had a job, as Brandt's wife had divorced Gil and married Murchison.

I am also told by people in organization back then that Ermal Allen was the brains on that level and filled the pipeline with good info. Brandt organized it and reported to Schramm

That said, prepare for Brandt to get in. I hear he has inside track with Bowlen

If Gil Brandt indeed gets the nomination (which wouldn’t surprise me, thanks for the tip, John!), that will get in a lot of the deserving GM types. George Young, Bucko Kilroy, and Joe Thomas would probably be the best left, with Young by far the most deserving.

Kilroy is kind of like Dick LeBeau in being a HoVG type at two things, as an o-lineman and GM, with an innovator kicker of establishing the combine. Whether that’s enough to justify his election is actually a fair question.

Thomas, as I think Bryan rightly suggested, would be a pretty surprising story if he got in. But I can’t think of another viable possibility other than him once you get past Young and Kilroy in this category. He has a lot of baggage, but did have a distinguished career in some ways — kind of like Art Modell, perhaps, in that regard.

Any other good GM candidates otherwise? I can’t think of any.

Bowlen doesn’t get my juices flowing, the more I think about his career. But if you’re going to get him in, this is probably the time for it, health-wise at least. He’ll be a better choice than Charles Bidwill and probably Eddie DeBartolo, but that’s not the highest of praise, of course.

bachslunch wrote:Shorty Ray is the only official-type enshrinee. I’m actually hard pressed to think of a pure game official in NFL history who would be the equal to, say, Bill Klem in baseball (he is in the BBHoF). I mean, look — it’d be easy to toss out a name like Ed Hochuli just because he’s pretty recent and relatively high profile. Realistically, who would be deserving in this category, and more importantly why? I’m open to suggestions.

i have been doing research on the playoff assigments, and I concurr that the most worthy official to be enshrined would be Ron Gibbs (who wore no. 5 at the end of his career). From 1940-1962 he was the head referee in an astounding 16 NFL Championship games (1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960).

As for the Super Bowl era, the top referee has to be Jerry Markbreit (no. 9 from 1976-1998). He officiated 4 Super Bowls and 8 Conference Championship Games, and a total of 25 playoff games.

For other official positions, the two best officials were umpire Ron Botchan (no. 110, from 1980-2001) and back judge Tom Kelleher (no. 25, from 1960-1987). Both officiated 5 Super Bowls each, and Botchan eight Conference Championship Games. Meanwhile, Kelleher worked 9 Conference Championship Games, plus two more NFL Championship Games in 1962 and 1964.

One anecdote about Kelleher (who worked with Tommy Bell and then with Markbreit) was in a Texans-Packers game at Lambeau Field in December 2008. The Texans' starting center was Chris Myers, who was Kelleher's grandson. Myers' wife went to Green Bay to see the game (she was the only Texans' wife or relative who went) and after the game a heavy snowstorm had the Austin Straubel Airport closed. The officials were also stranded, and when they met her and hear that she was married to Kelleher grandson they were surprised. Every one of them knew Kelleher personally, as he had been a replay official and officials' trainer long after he retired from the field, and they helped her to find accomodations and book another flight the following day. Kelleher (who was still alive at the time, he died in 2011) commanded a lot of respect (Markbreit mentions in his book that he was his mentor).