RICK GOSSELIN’S ALL-TIME NFL SPECIAL TEAMS UNIT

[sheajets]

I saw that Gosselin had Vinatieri as the first team placement kicker, and this goes back to another recent thread where I argued that Vinatieri will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and it seems that many of the modern football writers who have covered his career and vote for the HOF (I don't know if Gosselin is a HOF voter) are already starting to proclaim him the greatest kicker ever.

I wouldn't object too much to such a proclamation right now, but he is going to finish his career outside the top 10 all time most accurate FG kickers. Even though he was a very accurate and his snow kicks are the stuff of legend now. But suppose 5 years go by and Justin Tucker remains the most accurate in NFL history. Can't really punish the guy just because he didn't have the benefit of playing on the Manning Colts and Brady Belichick Patriots.

[Rupert Patrick]

I saw that Gosselin had Vinatieri as the first team placement kicker, and this goes back to another recent thread where I argued that Vinatieri will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and it seems that many of the modern football writers who have covered his career and vote for the HOF (I don't know if Gosselin is a HOF voter) are already starting to proclaim him the greatest kicker ever.

I wouldn't object too much to such a proclamation right now, but he is going to finish his career outside the top 10 all time most accurate FG kickers. Even though he was a very accurate and his snow kicks are the stuff of legend now. But suppose 5 years go by and Justin Tucker remains the most accurate in NFL history. Can't really punish the guy just because he didn't have the benefit of playing on the Manning Colts and Brady Belichick Patriots.

Here's an interesting stat - Vinatieri only led the NFL in scoring one time. The guy who replaced him in New England, Stephen Gostkowski, has led the NFL in scoring a record five times, tying him with Don Hutson, although Gino Cappelletti led the AFL in scoring five times.

[JohnTurney]

I saw that Gosselin had Vinatieri as the first team placement kicker, and this goes back to another recent thread where I argued that Vinatieri will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and it seems that many of the modern football writers who have covered his career and vote for the HOF (I don't know if Gosselin is a HOF voter) are already starting to proclaim him the greatest kicker ever.

Gosselin does vote for HOF and yeah, Vinatieri has been proclaimed by Peter King and maybe a few others is the "recent GOAT"

[rhickok1109]

I can't put very much stock in a kicker leading the league in scoring. That says a lot more about his team's offense than about his kicking ability.

[bachslunch]

I saw that Gosselin had Vinatieri as the first team placement kicker, and this goes back to another recent thread where I argued that Vinatieri will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and it seems that many of the modern football writers who have covered his career and vote for the HOF (I don't know if Gosselin is a HOF voter) are already starting to proclaim him the greatest kicker ever.

I wouldn't object too much to such a proclamation right now, but he is going to finish his career outside the top 10 all time most accurate FG kickers. Even though he was a very accurate and his snow kicks are the stuff of legend now. But suppose 5 years go by and Justin Tucker remains the most accurate in NFL history. Can't really punish the guy just because he didn't have the benefit of playing on the Manning Colts and Brady Belichick Patriots.

Yup. That’s the primary complaint I have with Vinatieri. Compared to his contemporaries, he was nothing special in terms of FG percentage. If you’re going to be the GOAT, you have to earn it tangibly. And in Vinatieri’s case, it’s all smoke and mirrors.

[Bryan]

http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/rick-g ... eams-unit/

RICK GOSSELIN’S ALL-TIME NFL SPECIAL TEAMS UNIT

FIRST TEAM
Placement Kicker: Adam Vinatieri.
Long snapper: Steve DeOssie. .
Interior kick blocker: Matt Blair
Edge kick blocker: Eddie Meador

SECOND TEAM
Deep snapper: Patrick Mannelly.
Interior kick blocker: Alan Page.

Goose does a great job in his article, though there are some disagreements. Nonetheless, very complete lists.

anyway, overwhelmingly a good article

Thanks for sharing. This is such a great subject matter...a combination of 'legend' and 'fact'. In general, Gosselin's lists are too modern-day centric. Perhaps that is due to lack of data on guys from the 1970's and prior. No mention of Bill Malinchak, for example.

I can't go for Vinatieri as the best kicker. In fact, I find that choice to be egregious, like someone picking an All-Time team and listing Joe Namath as first team QB. There are many better choices; I would pick Lou Groza. Weeb Ewbank said that Groza could kick 500 field goals in practice and you'd only see one set of cleat marks on the ground...Steve Myhra could kick 5 field goals in practice and the ground would look like chickens had been fighting each other.

Steve DeOssie must have been a tremendous long snapper, because I never saw Patrick Mannelly make a bad snap in 245 games. To me, Mannelly was head and shoulders above all other LS's.

It would be interesting to know who was the key element for Bud Grant's teams blocking all those kicks...was it Alan Page or Matt Blair? Also, Nate Allen deserved an Edge Kick Blocker mention.

Lastly, the combination kicker-punter needs to be recognized. Tommy Davis would probably earn the spot. Don Chandler might get a mention.

[Bryan]

here is my take on subject

Interesting list. I remember hearing a story about Bob Gladieux literally coming out of the stands to suit up for a short-handed Patriots squad. He had a strange career.

Rich Moser put up some relatively large ST tackle totals with the 1978-1979 Steelers. How does/did he compare to Zack Valentine in 1979?

[JohnTurney]

.

Rich Moser put up some relatively large ST tackle totals with the 1978-1979 Steelers. How does/did he compare to Zack Valentine in 1979?

I think they were on same level...there are likely Steelers fans who would be able to separate them more. I just remember Valentine making so many open field tackles, he just stood out to me. But usually, when the special teams units, on the whole, are good, there are more than one good players and when picking one guy, you will leave others off. I just thought Valentine was a bit more athletic and "popped" a lot.

[JuggernautJ]

It's nice to see some 70's players (Meador, Hendricks, Page) in the OP but if this an "All-Time" list it seems incredibly light on players from the early days if the NFL.
Before unlimited substitution starters played on special teams, too.
I don't know about you but I can't imagine a better tackler from the punter position than Jim Thorpe...
Mel Hein didn't came out for a Long Snapper. I'd like to have him on my punt coverage team...

Maybe we should just remove "All-Time" from consideration and say "Modern Era" for (most of) this list?

Also and as stated before, I wouldn't put Hardy Brown on any "All-Time" list that didn't start with the words "Dirty" or "Notorious." I don't believe in rewarding intentionally trying to seriously hurt someone and especially not breaking the rules to do so.

[JohnTurney]

Maybe we should just remove "All-Time" from consideration and say "Modern Era" for (most of) this list?

Good thoughts, but I think when even talk about special teams, it's modern era. They didn't substitute back then, even when there was free substitution, really. Even in the 1950s to even maybe early 1960s, the punt team and placement team was the offense. Often the QB was the kicker and punter, if not him, someone else from the offense. Punt return and kick rush was the defense. Lots of times the punt returners were one of the safeties.

It wasn't until the modern era when they subbed specialists in, starting I would think, with kicker and punters, then returners, then maybe the coverage guys. We are talking about a thing that began in earnest in the 1970s and became more and more prevalent.

When rosters were 33- or 38- of 40-men, everyone was a special teamer. So, while I totally get your point, I think Gosselin is right to pick only recent players