1970 Long Island Bulls

[Saban1]

Thanks for all the info here.

Bob Lurtsema played for the Harrisburg Capitols in 1966. Interesting story on him. Lurtsema was on the Baltimore Colts taxi squad that year. After the 1966 season, Bob told Colts head coach Don Shula that he wanted to be released, knowing that he would have a difficult time trying to make the Colts defensive line. Knowing about the defensive troubles of the 1966 New York Giants, Lurtsema decided to try out for the Giants in 1967. Coach Shula called the Giants and recommended Bob. Lurtsema not only made the Giants team, but became a mainstay on their defensive line for the next few years. Bob Lurtsema was considered a rookie in 1967 for New York.

[Saban1]

As I was browsing a football website, I came across something that surprised me a little bit. I found a team called the Long Island Bulls in a league called the Atlantic Coast Football League. What surprised me was that there were seven players on that team that were former players on the New York Giants.

I know that there were other football leagues during the 60's and 70's other than the NFL and the AFL, but what surprised me was the number of former Giants players on that one team, and the fact that former Giants safety Allan Webb was the Head Coach. Webb played on those Y.A. Tittle Giants teams.

The former Giants players were LB Bill Swain, RB Ronnie Blye, DE/LB McKinley Boston, DB Al Brenner, LB Ray Hickl, DB Jim Holifield, and DT Tim McCann. I guess that those players either loved playing football or were hoping to play their way back into the NFL. I don't think any of them got back into the NFL.

Bill Swain surprised me the most because he was the starting left linebacker for the Giants in 1967, but was traded to Detroit in 1968 (expendable because the Giants got linebacker Tommy Crutcher in a trade from Green Bay) I think for either safety Bruce Maher or guard Doug Van Horn or both. Don't know of the full details of that trade.

Swain was a veteran who played for the Rams in 1963, Vikings in 1964, Giants in 1965 and 1967 (missed 1966 due to a knee injury) and Detroit in 1968 and 1969. He was a reserve on those teams except for 1967 when he started at left linebacker for the Giants. So, Swain came east to play for the Bulls after leaving Detroit (Don't know if Detroit released him or he retired). Bill Swain became a close friend of Tucker Frederickson when they were both on the Giants from 1965 through 1967, so maybe Frederickson had something to do with Swain's playing for the 1970 Bulls (told Swain about the opportunity to play, or something like that). I think that Tucker had a lot of clout in the Giants organization.

The other six 1970 Bulls players had more recently played for the Giants, and Ronnie Blye played for a team called the Brooklyn Dodgers before joining the Giants in 1968. Andy Robustelli was the head coach of the Brooklyn Dodgers at the time.

Also, former Giants Freeman White and Gary Wood played for the Ottawa Rough Riders in the Canadian Football League in 1970.

More on Bill Swain. Swain was released by the Detroit Lions on September 14, 1970. Ten days later, Swain signed with the Long Island Bulls.

If Bill Swain was hoping to play himself back to a position with the New York Giants, he picked a bad time. The Giants were deep with linebackers. They had a rookie that they were very high on in Jim Files, who started at middle linebacker in 1970 and beyond. John Kirby, who was a teammate of Swain's in Minnesota as a rookie in 1964 and I think was slated to start at right linebacker for the Giants in 1970, until the Giants then talked Matt Hazeltine to come out of retirement at San Francisco and Matt became the starting right linebacker for them that year. The Giants also had a couple more rookie linebackers in John Douglas and Pat Hughes who both eventually became starters for the New York team.

Swain played for the Long Island Bulls in 1970 and I think retired from pro football after that, at least as a player.

[TodMaher]

Swain played for the Long Island Bulls in 1970 and I think retired from pro football after that, at least as a player.

He was in camp with the WFL's Portland Thunder in 1975 - cut on June 30th.

[Saban1]

Swain played for the Long Island Bulls in 1970 and I think retired from pro football after that, at least as a player.

He was in camp with the WFL's Portland Thunder in 1975 - cut on June 30th.

Thanks for the info.

Swain must have loved football.

Players miss it. Not just playing the game, but the friendships, being part of a team, etc. One former player that was pretty messed up physically and could hardly walk as a result of his football injuries was asked if he regretted playing football. He replied that he wouldn't have missed it for the world.

I would have loved to have been on one of the championship teams even if I was the most marginal player on the team, which I would have been if I was lucky enough to even be on one of those teams.

[Saban1]

Swain played for the Long Island Bulls in 1970 and I think retired from pro football after that, at least as a player.

He was in camp with the WFL's Portland Thunder in 1975 - cut on June 30th.

Thanks for the info.

Swain must have loved football.

Players miss it. Not just playing the game, but the friendships, being part of a team, etc. One former player that was pretty messed up physically and could hardly walk as a result of his football injuries was asked if he regretted playing football. He replied that he wouldn't have missed it for the world.

I would have loved to have been on one of the championship teams even if I was the most marginal player on the team, which I would have been if I was lucky enough to even be on one of those teams.

Bill Swain was not drafted by a NFL or AFL team, but joined the Los Angeles Rams in 1963. Apparently, Swain entered the Rams training camp in 1963 and tried out for the team, and managed to make the Rams team.

Bill Swain played for Minnesota in 1964. I don't know if he was traded or sold to the Vikings or if he was waived by the Rams and picked up by the Vikings.

Another thing I was wondering about. Was Bill Swain protected from the expansion drafts in 1966 (Atlanta) or 1967 (New Orleans)? Probably no way to find out about that.

[Saban1]

Bill Swain may have been protected from the 1966 expansion draft, but I doubt very much that he was or needed to be protected from the 1967 draft due to the fact that Swain missed the whole 1966 season due to a knee injury.

I think that Bill Swain was going to start at one of the linebacker positions in 1966 which is why he might have been protected that year from the expansion draft (Atlanta). I don't think that Swain would have started at left linebacker in 1966 because Jerry Hillebrand started on the left side that year and Jerry was pretty good.

Even if Swain wasn't protected in 1966, I don't think that Atlanta would have taken him because Bill Swain had played for three teams (Rams in 1963, Vikings in 1964, and Giants in 1965) and had yet to be a starter. The three Giants players taken by Atlanta in the 1966 expansion draft (FB Ernie Wheelwright, T Frank Lasky, and DT Roger Anderson) had all been starters with the Giants.

Jerry Hillebrand asked to be traded after the 1966 season and the Giants traded him to St. Louis. So, Bill Swain became the starting left linebacker for the New York team in 1967. Swain was traded to Detroit in 1968 where he was a reserve linebacker for two seasons.

In the 1967 expansion draft, New Orleans picked T/C Bob Scholtz, DT Jim Garcia, and QB Gary Wood from the New York Giants.

Roger Anderson returned to the Giants in 1967 after playing in Canada in 1966 (I think that he was cut in training camp by Atlanta in 1966). Roger became the starting left defensive tackle for New York in 1968. Roger Anderson had started for the Giants at right offensive tackle in 1964 as a rookie due to an injury to Jack Stroud.

[Saban1]

Bill Swain may have been protected from the 1966 expansion draft, but I doubt very much that he was or needed to be protected from the 1967 draft due to the fact that Swain missed the whole 1966 season due to a knee injury.

I think that Bill Swain was going to start at one of the linebacker positions in 1966 which is why he might have been protected that year from the expansion draft (Atlanta). I don't think that Swain would have started at left linebacker in 1966 because Jerry Hillebrand started on the left side that year and Jerry was pretty good.

Even if Swain wasn't protected in 1966, I don't think that Atlanta would have taken him because Bill Swain had played for three teams (Rams in 1963, Vikings in 1964, and Giants in 1965) and had yet to be a starter. The three Giants players taken by Atlanta in the 1966 expansion draft (FB Ernie Wheelwright, T Frank Lasky, and DT Roger Anderson) had all been starters with the Giants.

Jerry Hillebrand asked to be traded after the 1966 season and the Giants traded him to St. Louis. So, Bill Swain became the starting left linebacker for the New York team in 1967. Swain was traded to Detroit in 1968 where he was a reserve linebacker for two seasons.

In the 1967 expansion draft, New Orleans picked T/C Bob Scholtz, DT Jim Garcia, and QB Gary Wood from the New York Giants.

Roger Anderson returned to the Giants in 1967 after playing in Canada in 1966 (I think that he was cut in training camp by Atlanta in 1966). Roger became the starting left defensive tackle for New York in 1968. Roger Anderson had started for the Giants at right offensive tackle in 1964 as a rookie due to an injury to Jack Stroud.

Roger Anderson was not cut by the Atlanta Falcons n 1966, but quit due to the pressures of the Falcon's training camp. Anderson was going to play in the Continental Football League, but was contacted by the Montreal Alouettes of the Canadian Football League. So, Roger Anderson played in Canada in 1966.

Kind of strange that Anderson returned to the Giants in 1967 after not being protected from the expansion draft in 1966, but Roger not only returned to New York but became the starting defensive left tackle for the Giants in 1968.

Anderson was gone from the Giants in 1969. Not unusual for the Giants players of that era to start one year and be gone the next.

[Shipley]

Roger Anderson played for a semi-pro team called the Chambersburg Cardinals in 1972 trying to get back into the NFL, but he was overweight and out of shape. Chambersburg is where a number of ex-Pottstown Firebirds landed.

[Saban1]

Roger Anderson played for a semi-pro team called the Chambersburg Cardinals in 1972 trying to get back into the NFL, but he was overweight and out of shape. Chambersburg is where a number of ex-Pottstown Firebirds landed.

Thanks. Interesting.

[Todd Pence]

The Pittsburgh Steelers used the ACFL's Wheeling Ironmen as a farm club. Wheeling's uniforms even adopted the same look the Steelers were wearing in the late 1960's.